UPDATE: FV has now closed, for the reasons articulated in the first comment on this post. Thanks to everyone who has participated here over the course of the last decade.
The wiki is still operating, and the 2018-19 season is set up:
http://classics.wikidot.com/02-2018-2019-classics-ancient-history-archaeology-job-market
25 comments:
This decision to close FV was made after several months of discussion and consideration among ourselves and with colleagues. FV is an entity that we have been entirely responsible for the last few years, and we are convinced that it can no longer function in a way that we are comfortable with under the generally laissez faire moderation policy that has been a hallmark of the site from the beginning. We are certainly not willing to abandon attempts to moderate altogether and let FV go Lord of the Flies.
There are problems with moving the other direction as well. On a practical level, a system in which every comment is pre-screened is not feasible for us. In order to keep conversations going naturally, that would require someone to be actively moderating at all times night and day. The Servii are volunteers, with real jobs, and that would have been far more intensive than what we could offer. And the current platform on Blogger simply doesn't allow much oversight (we can't see IP addresses, for example, which makes it very hard to take proactive action).
Furthermore, there is also a deeper issue at play. We don't feel entirely empowered to impose a drastically stricter moderation policy of FV, which inevitably involves us-- a few totally unaccountable members of the profession-- making sweeping decisions about the finer limits of acceptable speech. This is especially true because FV is one of the few broad disciplinary meeting points for our field, which gives the moderators disproportionate power. As long as we were only deleting an occasional problematic post, we were fine with this. But as the situation has crossed the line more and more frequently into more serious territory, we have become increasingly uncomfortable.
Our decision to close may, in that context, seem even stranger. Clearly, closing the site is the most drastic type of change we could make. But our feeling is this: we hope that the vacuum created by the closure of FV will create room for new options to be discussed and to emerge, and for a consensus to develop about what what the best of those alternatives may be. These are not our decisions to make alone. There is quite clearly a desire for space(s) for conversation like this within our field. The FV post count is (way) up this year, and despite the conversations that have gone off the rails, there continue to be a great many helpful and important conversations happening here.
We recognize that it is possible that a new FV might be less civilized than the current one is. Clearly, the least labor-intensive replacement option would be for someone to simply 'clone' this site on a new blogger account, and post a link. But we really hope that the community can step up with better options, and vote with their feet. As for models and alternative formats, we'd point especially to the Philosophy blog universe, and to sites like DailyNous (whose comment policy we really like). Here, for example, is a recent post about a commenting kerfuffle from there that highlights how the space works: http://dailynous.com/2018/04/02/commenting-here-some-advice/. Another option would be a chatroom space of some type, although we haven't explored these in great detail.
We also recognize the danger that closing FV will simply dissolve the whole community-- a consequence that we would deeply regret. To this end, we will act as an aggregator for the next few years: we will keep the homepage of FV as a list of links to any successor site alternatives that are posted here or in the main thread, or that are sent to us (archwhat@gmail.com).
We'll also be around here to continue this conversation.
-S
Hey! Before this conversation takes a different direction, this is a good place for us to acknowledge you for taking on this unpaid and wholly unrewarded, anonymous labor. Thank you. As a junior classicist and job-seeker, the wiki and FV have been helpful.
Thanks, 4:56
The reaction to the decision only proved why it was necessary.
The new forum should allow GIFs and/or stickers because it's 2018.
This is my tenth year reading and commenting on FV. I started when I was a graduate student. Now I have tenure.
I find FV's demise sad, but given the site's devolution, a necessary move.
I applaud your decision, as difficult as it was. Let's hope we can all come up with a system that maintains all that is good about FV, but eliminates as much as possible what was (increasingly) becoming more and more problematic.
I applaud the decision. Having quit Classics a few months ago, I’ve kept checking in on FV, solely to remind myself that I’d made the right decision in turning my back on the field. It’s become too toxic. And, in my opinion at least, no job is worth being surrounded by such aggression, contempt, and sheer viciousness. If anyone sets up a new forum, there really shouldn’t be the blanket anonymity which brings out the snarling beasts in some people.
Over and out, thanks.
10:44, what line of work are you going into (if you feel comfortable saying)?
10.44 here. No problem, at all (if the Servii don't mind - I know there's another page dedicated to alternatives). I'm teaching English for Academic Purposes at my alma mater, in a wonderful environment where the students are career-savvy and management keep exclaiming that they're 'so lucky to have me'(!). As you can imagine, that makes for a hilarious but very soothing contrast with my Classics job-hunt experience. Incidentally - if it helps - corporate options I'm looking at for the future are HR's 'Learning and Development' roles, as well as 'Instructional Design' for blended learning.
All the best
Servius,
Do you think industrial psychologists would have any interest in studying an archive of FV content? The SA blog article brought the idea to mind.
Not Servius, but I reckon the lack of any identifying markers would make FV less useful for analysis than you might suppose. All of this could have been written by one person... One raving lunatic!
I don't think that "aggression, contempt, and sheer viciousness" should account for FV to be shut down. These words and their meaning impose connotations of censorship, especially if combined with a recently published article celebrating FV's demise. Anyway, everyone is surrounded by a highly competitive, aggressive, and vicious working environment, especially in neo-liberal era. Shutting down FV equals to restriction of free speech, whether we like it or not.
An attempt to wrap my head around this whole thing: https://sententiaeantiquae.com/2018/04/28/finale-verbum-who-killed-famae-volent/
Curate ut valeatis, Quirites.
Does anyone know what the options are for platforms that allow registration and pseudonymous posting?
I'm of the opinion that FV could and should continue, but that pseudonymity is the way to go, probably à la the Chronicle of Higher Ed forums. I'm unfamiliar with the platforms that are available, their upsides and downsides, and what they'd cost.
Why not post an open call for people to email in to volunteer to be the new servii if you don't want the job? There seems to be a big contingent of those who want to keep FV. Others.... can just not check it.
I'm unsure why this isn't an option, to be honest. I've seen other posters suggest the same thing in the main comment thread. There are people willing to take over the job of moderating FV and it keep it alive.
Agreeing with 3:39. That's the common practice for journals, after all; people run it for a while, and gradually step down as new editors come on, making sure there's overlap but also new blood.
The bigger question is the anonymity / troll factor. Could we not just become a Chronicle forum?
CHE is so cumbersome to use, though, it is almost impossible to find what you're looking for. Half the time you have to wade through a dozen posts on cats before you can find anything academic. And the general CHE fora are not field-specific: do we really want computer scientists and paleontologists weighing in on the necessity (or not) of graduate language training to teach undergraduate Latin?
Thank you for all your work on FV. It was at times entertaining but lately rage and misery began to obnubilate basic common sense. I hope the archives are still readable.
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