I think this thread would be most useful in two ways: 1) if anyone knows details about a temporary position (e.g., leave replacement, and if so, whose?, or will the position being advertised possibly turn into a renewal of the contract of a temp already in place? etc.), and 2) I've noticed temporary jobs sometimes get advertised on the professional lists (Classics-L, WCC) well before they make the APA listing - the APA listings last year advertised some jobs with a week to the due date - so maybe links to such job announcements could be posted here.
Nope, Northwestern regular faculty teach 2-2 load (they teach just two out of three quarters a year). The 3-3-3 load for visiting instructors comes from the most brilliant decision by former chair and dean that teaching languages is much easier than teaching lecture courses, seeing as the language classes don't get enrollments. So the serf label is very appropriate in this case.
When you say "a few years back," I'm really hoping that you mean in the 1960s. Because otherwise, that's unconscionable. (Even worse is the fact that I'm sure they filled it with someone grateful to have a job, any job.)
Every fall Daniel Linzer and Michael Mills formally declare war on all Northwestern VAPs. Northwestern graduate students in philosophy who have passed their qualifying exams are then sent out across campus, as well as to Gary, IN, Kenosha, WI, and the spaces under the El platform at Dempster (these being the nearest places where NU VAPs can actually afford to live), in order to beat up and steal the LSJs and OCTs of any NU VAPs they find. They then sell the books to UChicago classics grads at steep discounts.
Having done this the philosophy graduate students are then allowed to advance to candidacy. It's brutal, but it works. They tend to do quite well on the job market.
I hope that 5/4 for 22k/year included an apartment, 21 meals a week at the dining hall and a free laundry service. Even then, that is some serious exploitation.
A couple of years ago, I saw a 4-4 in a city (not an overly expensive one, but still) paying $28k, which I thought was ludicrous, although the $22k beats it. Who can take a job like that with student loans? The independently wealthy?
And my mother-in-law thought I was lying when I told her that a salary in the fifties was good by most Classics standards...
There are two schools I know of (but alas, where I have never taught) that pay visitors 50 or 60K. The exception, of course, rather than the rule (and situational: in one case the visitor was exceptionally qualified).
Sometimes salary depends on whether or not you have a PhD. I would say some schools will pay ABDs in the 20's and no more.
I think the NU position is being singled out because it happens to be a particularly egregious case of exploitation by a wealthy, elite school.
Northwestern could afford to pay more, but the market let's them avoid that possibility. Anon 12:48's disclaimer says it all. Being worked to death is better than starving.
Most VAP or lecturer positions aren't like this. I know one VAP at a great SLAC who is making in the mid-50s with a 2/2 load. Her position is a better one than most T-T jobs, at least in terms of teaching and pay. Granted, it is only one year, but still...
Northwestern deserves to be singled out here because of the type of school it is. They have the resources, they just choose not to use them. Lovely.
Why not say the names of the 5-4 and 4-4 schools? I know that we don't discuss particular job candidates here, but there's no reason not to discuss programs.
Why not say the names of the 5-4 and 4-4 schools? I know that we don't discuss particular job candidates here, but there's no reason not to discuss programs.
I have mixed feelings about this. Programs are people, after all. At the same time, I think it is good for places like Northwestern to feel a bit of heat (not that they are paying much attention) over practices as discussed above.
But some schools pay in the 30s for loads of 4/4 or 5/5 because they simply don't have the resources to offer anything better. This isn't exploitation, this is a economics.
The 4/4 school wasn't rich, but at the same time it wanted to up its research profile. I actually interviewed with them this year, and the salaries were much higher. They want to up their research profile, and I think they finally got the message that to do this, they need to pay higher salaries, so they were working on their endowments and restructuring budgets. Other schools with similar ambitions should take note. If they don't have the money, they don't have the money, but they should either find more money OR should not expect to hire top faculty (this particular school was interviewing graduates from top programs and then wondering why no one accepted their offers!).
But I have no desire to name names. This school was working hard to pay more, and they succeeded. Most of us apply to the jobs that are available, and then if we get offered the job, we can decide if the salary is too low. There's no point in 'outing' schools here -- particularly because it might embarrass the people who work there now.
At the end of the day, the unfortunate truth is that beggars can't be choosers. So if the only job I get this year pays very little and has a ridiculous course load, I'll take it. Sure, I'll bitch and moan about it, but I will take it. I would imagine most of us feel that way, and that is why schools like Northwestern STILL manage to fill the serf positions year after year with folks from top programs.
I'm beginning to realize I've made a terrible life choice... {I would post a link to the Simpsons clip, but there's some kind of copyright infringement nonsense that has stripped it from youtube}
Can I just say how annoying it is that schools sometimes require a "statement of teaching philosophy"? I mean, it's sort of possible to have one for civ/lit/history courses because you can't teach everything and therefore have to make choices about what to assign, but how the heck does one write something meaningful for a job that involves intro-level and/or intermediate Greek/Latin? Intro-level involves working through the textbook and giving regular quizzes and tests, and making sure that students understand the material well enough that they don't fall behind. Intermediate involves getting students used to reading genuine authors, instead of Wheelock-type sentences. So what counts as a "philosophy"? Whether to give three tests in a semester instead of a midterm and final?
I'm curious: does anyone out there think that he/she has come up with a full-page statement of teaching philosophy that isn't at least 80% b.s.? (I ask this as someone who has taught these courses and gotten good evaluations, so it's not as if I suck as a teacher and don't see the light for that reason. I just don't think that one's approach to teaching languages can be easily summarized in a paragraph or two.)
I am in absolute agreement about the utter uselessness of the "statement of teaching philosophy."
BUT I think you're thinking too literally. "Philosophy" does not mean "approaches" or "syllabus." (The latter is an interview question.) It means stuff like how you relate to your students, what kind of relationship you try to build with them, how you think learning is best achieved. Examples make it sound less wuzzy-fuzzy, and that is how you work in all those diverse courses: examples.
You're kidding. THAT's what they mean? (No one ever told me, and this isn't my first time on the market.) Looking over those samples at Michigan -- thanks for that link, by the way -- I see that they are all at least 50% b.s., laden with buzzwords that don't always mean that much. (And get a look at the one from the person in Asian studies -- he/she devotes a full paragraph to how/why he/she goes about learning students' names at the beginning of the semester! This person got a job off that philosophy statement?!?)
Still in total agreement with you. I'm not sure there's any way to make them not sound like b. s. I've certainly never succeeded. But the point is really reassurance, especially for smaller, teaching-oriented schools, that you're not some kind of evil demon in the classroom and won't scar their precious charges for life.
I really try to think of it as an essay introducing them to my teaching style, heavy with concrete (yet general) examples, thus eliminating the buzzwords as much as possible.
When I'm questioning whether or not to apply for a job, sometimes whether they require such a statement makes me decide against applying, so much do I hate the exercise.
Nobody ever reads the t.p., they just want to know that it is there.
This is very true. One of the first things I do when entering any bathroom is to make sure that the t.p. is there. I don't remember ever reading it, for that matter.
What the - ? Have you all seen the March 1 ads? There is one job!
All the school are in holing patterns until more people begin accepting TT offers and tell their departments. I suspect March 15 ad April 1 will be this big lists.
Perhaps fewer searches failed this year, necessitating fewer VAPs.
Or maybe junior scholars are happy in their current positions (good fit first time around), so few people are switching jobs and announcing their departure in mid-February (a situation often feeding the spring market).
In any case, if either of the above suggestions is correct, it means that search committees are doing their jobs really well, both in terms of filling positions and filling them with the right candidates!
But I think my email program go it just right. For the first time it put Renie's email in the spam folder. Swarthmore's not going to know what's hit it (other than dozens of applications).
I disagree with the previous comments - I know from experience the March 1 ads are usually much larger. I suspect the dearth is because there were so many jobs in the fall. Most VAP positions, btw, do not result from failed searches for t-t; it's the exception rather than the rule. Most visiting positions are endemic (short-staffed department) or leave-replacements.
I think it depends. Some of those 100 applicants for the fall jobs will be grad students who still have funding if nothing materializes, or people with renewable contracts. And it depends on the job: if a place wants someone to teach a grad seminar on, e.g., Thucydides or the Greek novel, and says that in their ad, they probably will get fewer applications, from those who really are qualified.
Hey - there are lots of correlations between Thucydides and the Greek novel!
I'm sure there are, and I bet half of them are actually interesting. But I won't bother applying for that job because you, Dr. Thucydidean, will be the inside candidate. I can't compete, and I'm just interested in inscriptions.
Lucian's "True History" is a Greek novel and parodies Thucydides.
I write this as a Latinist/Roman historian, so if I know this the rest of you should...
(Also, the CHCL section on ancient novels specifically states that the origins of the novel are unknown, but Thucydides was among the likely influences.)
So, let me just make sure I'm up to speed: A famous professor of Greek history wrote an improbable book in order to be the inside candidate for a fictitious position in order to cover for his eventual domination of the world through lasciviously named women and extremely heavy fake tan. There's also a white cat and a butler with a deadly hat, though I'm not sure how to work that into the aforementioned VAP job description.
Wow. I just wanted to say: you people are amazing and I love you.
And it depends on the job: if a place wants someone to teach a grad seminar on, e.g., Thucydides or the Greek novel, and says that in their ad, they probably will get fewer applications, from those who really are qualified.
I'd bet 40-60, too. Anyone know for sure?
Yes, one university that advertised a Republican culture/lit TT position this year received about that many applications (c 40). They then offered the position to a candidate who works on the final decade of the C4 CE. The lesson there, it would seem, is to toss in your application everywhere. Like the lottery, "hey, you never know."
So most temporary jobs don't have a lengthy search timeline in which to notify of receipt of applications, etc. Mostly candidates don't hear from them until an interview is set up or the offer made without an interview. How long, do you all think is too long to have heard from a temporary job? In other words, when should you cross that option off your list? Based on my past experience, a month?
If that's the job I think it was, there was an extra desideratum for that search that the 4th-cent. person met.
March 9, 2008 11:26 AM
If I have *you* right, not one desideratum but several. I doubt the candidate thought they were merely throwing another unlikely application on the pile. That said, institutions can change their minds over the course of a search. Several Latin prose / poetry job ads this year seem to have been labelled entirely too narrowly given what came out in interviews.
I've been doing some poking around in the Chronicle fora, and there seems to be a common practice of ranking candidates for VAPs, flying out the top choice for a yea or nay vote, and then having the second choice visit campus only if the first one is a nay. Is this method commonly used in Classics depts?
A few years ago I had a slightly difference situation: an on-campus invitation after being told (by someone I knew and trusted) that the job was essentially mine, but the whole department wanted to meet me first. Talk about a no-pressure situation. The only way I could have lost that job would have been if I had thrown up on the Japanese prime minister.
I take it that you're saying Akron went straight to campus visits. Note to self: get applications done on time.
I know someone called dibs on Swarthmore, and someone else called shotgun, but I sent in my application anyway today. Why say this? Just in case anyone is counting how many apps that job's going to get. So far the count seems to be 3.
Doh! Sorry, my post was out of context. I meant that I will be Swarthmore applicant number four.
This is what my post should have looked like:
I know someone called dibs on Swarthmore, and someone else called shotgun, but I sent in my application anyway today. Why say this? Just in case anyone is counting how many apps that job's going to get. So far the count seems to be 3.
On a side note, I'm not sure if this is the appropriate thread, but what are people who struck out in the TT search doing for backups in case VAPs/post-docs don't come through? How many are in the position? I know there is some discussion in the Chronicle fora, but it would be interesting to hear from classicists.
On a side note, I'm not sure if this is the appropriate thread, but what are people who struck out in the TT search doing for backups in case VAPs/post-docs don't come through? How many are in the position?
I am. My department can usually find us something around here, so I'll end up teaching sections of Latin or, if I am unlucky, Myth. But at least I know I won't starve. I'd much prefer, however, to have a position at Swarthmore. As would about 60 (at least that is my guess on the applicant pool) other poor souls.
On a side note, I'm not sure if this is the appropriate thread, but what are people who struck out in the TT search doing for backups in case VAPs/post-docs don't come through? How many are in the position?
I am. My department can usually find us something around here, so I'll end up teaching sections of Latin or, if I am unlucky, Myth. But at least I know I won't starve. I'd much prefer, however, to have a position at Swarthmore. As would about 60 (at least that is my guess on the applicant pool) other poor souls.
Make that 5 Swarthmore applications! Can we keep a counter somewhere?
My back-up is to hope the place I'm visiting full-time at can indeed give me part-time work next year. Or that the colleague threatening to leave does so. Slim hopes, both.
I'm a 1-year VAP at a place that didn't have an opening for this coming year, so if I get nothing I'm screwed. Not to engage in class warfare, but I do hope that search committees take into account the fact that people out of grad school are far less likely to have a fallback option than current grads.
Like Anon 10:57, my one-year has no opportunity for renewal (mine's a sabbatical replacement), so it's a late VAP or nothing.
-Swarthmore applicant #3 (knowing now that I'm in good company, seconding the call for the counter [is it appropriate?], and predicting the # of apps will be closer to 100 than 50)
Maybe we can run a pool. Everybody guesses how many applications Swat is going to get and the person who is closest to the final tally gets the job. It saves the Swat folks a ton of work, we have more fun, and we actually have a bit more control over the process than usual. Tie-breaker goes to the person who is closest to the gender breakdown.
My exact guess is 84 total apps. 51 male, 33 female.
Not to engage in class warfare, but I do hope that search committees take into account the fact that people out of grad school are far less likely to have a fallback option than current grads.
I doubt that this is taken into account - it is not any SCs job to be charitable - but I think those out of grad school have more teaching experience and have letters from people (chairs, colleagues, etc.) who have no vested interest in having them succeed, thus they are more appealing to SCs for temp positions anyway.
Too bad that doesn't do us experienced types any good in the fall market.
I doubt that this is taken into account - it is not any SCs job to be charitable...
Of course not. But they should recognize that it doesn't benefit the field to lose good people. If there are two candidates of comparable quality then the one who doesn't have the option of staying in grad school should get the job. It's for the good of the field, not charity.
Have any of the VAP jobs with late February/early March deadlines have contacted people yet for phone interviews? I thought they'd want to resolve this nightmare as quickly as we do...
Bear with me because I'm an ABD newbie, but the sense I get is that there are a BUNCH of Ph.D.s out there in danger of getting put on the street. HOW can departments not push to expand curriculum to provide some jobs? Surely if departments taught "The Life of Alexander" or "The Trojan War" classes will draw students. Isn't that what it's about? Supply and demand? You get students, you can offer a class and provide jobs? I am missing something?
Disgustedandconfused, You've got it about right. But of course, departments shouldn't be in the business of expanding simply to provide jobs; plus, this year is no different from any other year. But if more popular courses are offered (and by popular professors!) enrollments will go up. Even then, though, getting the administration to approve adding a new tenure stream to a classics department is complex and the factors will vary from school to school, so it's not like there can be overnight success. And sometimes there are factors working against this. (For example, I once taught a course on the "Ancient Novel" that had only eight students. It probably would have had twice that number if it had been cross-listed with the English Department. But even though the course would be of great value to English majors (and students of other European literature), the English Dept.'s faculty didn't see it that way, thus depriving Classics of additional students for that course. There's nothing you can do about that sort of thing.)
I'm not even saying for TT positions. It sounds like jobless people out there will take just about any reasonable position. You know, at least several thousand for each class allowing someone to cobble together enough money to get by.
And I don't think it will just be about providing jobs. Isn't it also about raising the profile of classics and sharing its rich literature, history, and culture with the mainstream student body?
I suspect that a fair number of jobs will be announced in April. Not enough to take care of everyone by any means, but enough to keep your hopes up. That doesn't mean you shouldn't start thinking about back-up plans, but be prepared to channel your inner generalist and to send out anywhere from four to ten more applications.
If a fall search with APA interviews and campus visits fails to fill, do they often re-list the position in the spring as a one-year temporary position? Or do they go back through their applicants and try to find somebody there, for the one-year? In other words, if I haven't heard from a place since Chicago, but it isn't listed as offered or accepted, should I still have some hope?
It depends - who is in charge of the search, how much power do they have, how much do they and others care? My advice? Move on...don't expect any failed searches to become VAPs and you will be pleasantly surprised if one comes calling.
I know of a few PhDs (myself included) who don't have jobs yet. I would guess that there are probably twenty or thirty people out there in a similar situation. I don't have a back-up and I won't teach high school. I'd rather leave the field than accept a pale shadow of what I really want.
100+ people competing for how many spring market jobs? 20? 30? This is not good. I agree with the poster before "Will work for food/insurance" - people who are in real danger should get bonus points. Grad students that CAN be taken care of by their departments should NOT be on the spring market. Period. I know this smacks of class-warfare, so hear me out.
Departments could actually help solve this issue if they changed the way TA-ships are awarded. instead of having first, second and third year students teaching sections and serving as TAs, they should award those slots only to those who actually need them. Then students at the beginning of their programs could actually finish their qualifying exams and coursework before they have the added burden of teaching, grading, etc. This would speed-up the finishing time and free the teaching positions for later in the program, like now, when we are faced with trying to find a job in private industry in order to make it until next APA. The current system is such a bassackwards way of running things. Ugh!
Yes, although, if you read the NYTimes article, one of the current applicants has had a Ph.D. in Latin for 30 years and founded his own school in the meanwhile...
Yes, one university that advertised a Republican culture/lit TT position this year received about that many applications (c 40). They then offered the position to a candidate who works on the final decade of the C4 CE. The lesson there, it would seem, is to toss in your application everywhere. Like the lottery, "hey, you never know."
That makes perfect sense. If you are looking for somebody who works on Republican lit and culture then who would know that stuff better than an expert on how and why empires go in the toilet?
I think their diss. has the very 18th century sounding title: "Ann Coulter, the Culture of Corruption, and Dubya's Continuing Clusterfuck or, Rome Re-Visited". They went to a very interdisciplinary program.
These schools are not getting 100 applications, not for one-year positions in late spring. They're certainly not getting many good applications, either: not too long ago I was at a very good place that was sorting through applications for a VAP Latinist position in April/May and the chair told me that there were only a handful of good applications, and only two candidates who stood out. So by now, many of the best candidates have jobs, or have re-upped for another year in grad school.
The listings are pretty bad if you aren't yet employed for next year.
But, but but, please be assured that this is actually a pretty decent crop for March, and, given how long many tenure-track searches are taking to resolve, it wouldn't surprise me if April was at least average, if not above.
Regarding the earlier lament about the lack of Hellenist positions. You're not going to get Greek jobs per se listed this time of year. Most departments will be looking for the best available athlete, not a backup 3rd baseman. If you're just starting out, you're actually better off picking up a range of experience in a job that doesn't focus on Greek.
Yep, with the first day of spring and the approach of April, I think it's safe to say that the TT job market is finished with the exception of a few stragglers. You can sense that we've turned the corner.
How about we have a counter for how many people are still jobless? Individuals could add and remove themselves once they received a position. I think it will give a good indicator about how our field is doing.
How about we have a counter for how many people are still jobless? Individuals could add and remove themselves once they received a position. I think it will give a good indicator about how our field is doing.
The problem is that the counter would be limited to people who actually know about this blog which, judging from the number of my colleagues, isn't that many. Look at how many claimed to be applying to the Swarthmore job. Surely they will get many more than seven!
Has anyone looked closely at the U of Iowa job: a 3/2 schedule, 4 of those being lecture classes??!!?? As someone who is now considering a fourth temporary position, I have never, NEVER seen such a rank attempt at exploitation by a university of this caliber. How can the tenured and TT faculty sit back in good conscience and let a temporary person do the lion's share of lecturing? Sadly, those of us still looking to land something for next year will doubtlessly accept such trash. Shame on them.
I am sure no one at IU will lose an ounce of sleep over what people think about their position, nor will they feel any compunction while they exploit whomever they get...
A 3/2 load is actually quite cushy. There are plenty of VAPs out there withs 4/4 and 3/3 loads. In terms of lectures, unless you are a "privileged" humanities scholar in a decent TT position, you don't usually get to skip out on lectures to teach "Cicero's early works" or "Pigherding in Homer." All ancient historians, all archaeologists, and many philologists in TT positions teach large lecture classes. Many even enjoy them.
I would second the above opinion about this kind of position being cushy. Besides, you should really see big lecture classes not as an unjust burden but as a challenge. Face the challenge bravely and as best as you can, and you will think better of yourself and others will think better of you.
I would second the above opinion about this kind of position being cushy. Besides, you should really see big lecture classes not as an unjust burden but as a challenge. Face the challenge bravely and as best as you can, and you will think better of yourself and others will think better of you.
Was this supposed to be a good riff on Tyrtaeus, or am I just feeling cynical?
Actually, the professors who give the big lecture classes to VAP's may be doing this as a favor, strange as this may sound. It is easy enough for old hands, you see, to teach those courses that they have done so many times before. It is often actually easier than teaching smaller ones, where you have to remember the students' names, talk with them in class etc. For newly minted Ph.D.'s on the other hand, doing large introductory lectures is both great on-the-job training and looks good on their resumes. Believe me, you will be really glad one day that you had the chance of teaching Homer and Vergil, in their entirety, in English, to hordes of clueless undergraduates.
Large lectures are somewhat cushy. You do the same amount of prep (or perhaps a bit more) as you would for, say, a Greek Civ seminar at a SLAC, but because of the size of the class you either have TA's doing the grading or give quizzes online (where, of course, cheating can occur). There are no written assignments to grade, again because of the size. With Iowa specifically, it might even be that 40-60% of the materials in your two courses overlap (if doing Myth and Greek Lit the same semester), and if you're clever you'll sometimes even give the same lecture on the same day.
The Iowa job is not exploitation - take it from someone at a major R1 who is teaching 3-3, with half of those large lecture courses. That kind of course is easy once you get used it, and presuming you're comfortable talking to 200+ students in a huge auditorium. And 3-2 for a temporary job is sweet.
The Northwestern job, that's exploitation (3-3-3, low pay).
The Iowa job is WONDERFUL, you'll feel like a true colleague while the other profs teach one or two lecture courses a year. Lectures are only "cushy" if you don't care much about properly preparing for them.
Exactly, as the only historian in my department, I'm on the hook for both introductory Greek and Roman history, which both draw over 100 students. I've taught these courses since grad school and I haven't needed notes since I left. I guess it's all about perspective and one's background, but I consider these my cushy classes. I sure as hell won't let my colleagues know though.
Has anyone else noticed the uncool Minnesota is doing? They have two one-year positions: a VAP who teaches a 2-2 load, and a visiting lecturer who gets a 3-3 load. That will NOT be good for esprit de corps: if I were the Romanist lecturer, I'd resent the fact that the other person has a lighter teaching load, better title, and (undoubtedly) higher salary. I realize that part of the reason (or all of it?) must be that the VAP is expected to teach more advanced classes, but this two-caste system strikes me as unusual. I know that when I taught for two years at a similar state university I taught a grad class one of those years but not the other, and yet my title, salary, etc. were no different. And those were two distinct one-years, not a two-year.
It's probably the deans behind this and not the faculty, but it's still a pretty lousy thing to do.
The Minnesota Hellenist job is a leave replacement, the other isn't. So I would imagine that's a university regulation on course load etc. the department can't get around.
And isn't it already bad for esprit de corps for academia to basically rely on serfdom, no matter what the course load?
Admittedly, this is a personal gripe, but others here may have some reaction. After surfing the tenure-track market without success now for several cycles, I think that one thing that is most frustrating (among many sources of frustration) is how non-constructive the job process is, and perhaps this hints more strongly than anything at how arbitrary the whole thing really can be. Upfront the candidate prepares and submits materials, sending them off into the ether; many times, those materials are lost in oblivion, consumed by trolls or sucked into wormholes, or whatever. The candidate is hard-pressed to gain any perspective or feed-back, especially when many SCs seem barely able to communicate, much less provide feedback. As researchers we are conditioned to seek (and provide) constructive feedback from (and to) colleagues. While (owing to volume) we candidates can't expect this from SCs, at least some sort of nominal communication, especially for those interviewed and those invited to campus, should not be too much to ask ... even if the end result is "Dear Candidate A: we have hired Candidate B, thank you for your interest, yada-yada", this would be an improvement upon the deafening silence that often prevails (and certainly an improvement over these 'check-list' rejections or 'Dear Applicant' xeroxes). On this blog many comments - a great majority of them constructive - have been posted, many issues raised - how does the community actualize these issues? How do we effect change? If we all (or most of us, on most days) want the discipline of classics and its associated constellation of disciplines to thrive into the 21st century and beyond, an eye toward professionalism on the part of institutions would serve everyone for the better.
... and one could add to the last post that the great majority of candidates demonstrate exceedingly professional behavior, both in person with institutions and at a distance, walking on eggs 24-7 for weeks, no months, in hopes that the job process turns out well. so where's the reciprocity on the institutional side? and even tho the APA produces their somewhat incomplete placement report, we all want for an independent ombudsman telling institutions how to do it better.
What bothers me is that classics, and I presume the humanities disciplines, are slow to use "real-time," electronic application process. For those from universities that require it, I've noticed that they circumvent them by still requiring old-fashioned, hard-copy applications. IF, we were forced to totally go online, apps could not be "lost" and it would presumably be easier to update the applicants and provide feedback in a comments section. I know, we'll all be tenured or out of the field by the time this happens...
Does everyone else get the feeling that the short-term market is tardy in moving on their applications, or am I just on the ignore list? And I'm not talking about receipt notices. Can anyone shed light on the searches at these schools:
UCLA - 1 year Northwestern - 2 years Iowa State - 3 years Wabash - 1 year College of Charleston - 1 year Utah - 1 year U. of Iowa - 3 years Idaho - TT Indiana - 2 1 years Colgate - 1 year Brigham Young - 2 years
BYU's deadline was 3/22, so I don't expect much out of them - but UCLA's deadline was 2/15, which for those of us without jobs for next year seems like an eternity.
I have a similar question about temp jobs. This is the info I know:
-I suspect the Colgate job has just turned into a contract renewal. -College of Charleston has just started reviewing apps, but their acknowledgment letter says they won't be in touch till the position is definitely funded. No sense given of when that might be.
But yeah, I'd like to know about most of these schools too. As would others, I'm sure.
I heard that W&L sent their ad to selected schools well before their deadline, so they got apps from those selected schools to interview. They may plan to do more after the deadline.
That's why on this thread people should share such pre-advertised jobs.
True. W&L did send out their job notice before it appeared through the APA Placement Service.
I applied early, was rejected early. It was - I think - the first time I was ever rejected before a deadline. It's hard to remember; over the last four years I've applied to 194 positions, 63 this year alone. Got a job for next year? Nope.
Visiting Assistant Professor of Classics at Lewis & Clark College (Portland, OR). Classes to cover will likely include first- or second-year Greek and Latin, Greek and/or Roman History, and a College Core course (great books).
There's also no such listing in the Chronicle, HigherEdJobs.com, or the Lewis and Clark employment website. More details, like materials required and an address, would be nice!
WCC = Women's Classical Caucus. Job announcements are often posted on the WCC list before they make it to the APA list, etc. Also, WCC is very inexpensive to join (especially for students).
The WCC is open to everyone. It's probably the best and most accessible forum for discussion of professional issues relating to the field (other than this blog of course), they can also provide a lot of good data on professional matters. I vaguely remember hearing about a good discussion at one of their meetings on the lack of women in Roman history.
(Btw I'm a man, and a lapsed member of the WCC, so a lazy, cheap man at that.)
"What are we men to do? Form the MCC? Oh, right...can't say that."
Material Culture Club? How dare you utter those dirty words on here. No job for you...one year. Now go up to your room and read Catullus until you see the error of your ways...
The WCC is open to everyone. It's probably the best and most accessible forum for discussion of professional issues relating to the field (other than this blog of course), they can also provide a lot of good data on professional matters. I vaguely remember hearing about a good discussion at one of their meetings on the lack of women in Roman history.
(Btw I'm a man, and a lapsed member of the WCC, so a lazy, cheap man at that.)
STRONGLY SECONDED to both. Happily to the former, sadly to the latter. I need to get my act in gear and re-join.
Could someone who is a WCC member just cut and paste the listing here, so the rest of us can see it?
Here's the posting as it appeared in the email:
Visiting Assistant Professor of Classics at Lewis & Clark College (Portland, OR). Classes to cover will likely include first- or second-year Greek and Latin, Greek and/or Roman History, and a College Core course (great books).
Could people post things like phone interviews or any info about temp jobs on the wiki as it becomes available? That's what it's for, after all...the silence in the spring market is almost as bad as the silence pre-wiki, and the wiki is here to combat that, after all - it's not just for t-t jobs that interview at the APA.
I completely agree with the last poster. Things like phone/campus interviews or job offers for temp jobs should be posted on the wiki when known. In fact, this is even more important on the temp market than the t-t market, since in the spring decisions must be made more quickly and candidates usually have even less idea where they stand in relation to other searches.
I've been posting what I know or hear from reliable sources. Please, let's all do the same.
Perhaps the silence is a good sign. I.e., no decisions have yet been made on these positions. I.e., I still have a chance. I.e., I won't have to eat cat food.
However, I doubt this is the case, and I suspect that a good number of the recently advertised positions are already filled.
So now I need to decide whether I prefer Meow Mix or Purina. Iams and Science Diet are just too damned expensive.
Regardless, I don't think it's time to start choosing cat food brands yet. In my experience, it takes temporary jobs 4 weeks or so after deadline to make an offer (unless they're really organized, which tends not to happen when one is dealing with academics). By my count, that eliminates UCLA and Northwestern and Charleston, and anything else due before 3/10. However, there should be more news about phone/campus/CAMWS interviews out there, I think. I do think those should be recorded, and also job offers - no one is asking for names, just the knowledge that position X is not likely to be theirs.
On size of applicant pools: I happen to know my school's VAP got less than 20 applications. But I know a much less desirable school asking for the same specialty got almost 40. Go figure.
Science Diet is overrated, just like Oral-B toothbrushes. The first ingredient is never protein. It's what gets pushed on us by professionals. I would try Dick Van Patten's Natural Balance - not too unreasonable in price and much more variety for your diet than ramen. Next year at the APA, you'll have a gleaming head of hair to boot.
"On size of applicant pools: I happen to know my school's VAP got less than 20 applications."
Still, 20 presumably homeless people. I understand 100 apps for a TT position might not mean much b/c many already have jobs or can stay at their home department, but 20 apps for a VAP scares me much more for some reason. Happily, I'm on the other side of a contract myself...
Thanks for the tip, toonces. Maybe next year's APA can have a 'shiniest coat' contest?
I hear what you're saying, Anon. 3:54. 20 VAP applications scare me too, but, then again, I'm scared of just about everything right now (joblessness, my own shadow). Thanks to my area of specialization, there are many, many VAPs I just can't apply for--waste of a stamp (worth 1 1/2 packets of ramen, right there!).
20 VAP applications is scary indeed, but figure that a good number of them will be from ABDs. While ABDs may rule (or at least have one advantage on) the TT market, those who are out teaching have the leg up on ABDs who weren't snatched up in the TT food frenzy. At this point many schools just want a warm body to prop up in front of a class. Or so I think.
But since I don't have a job yet for next year, I clearly don't know what I'm talking about.
(That was meant for this board, not the other. Since I can't even write on a blog correctly, there is no hope for me.)
Well...I'm the one who mentioned the 20 VAP applications. Job went to an ABD (albeit one with a definite defense date already). I think for some jobs experience matters, others not so much. And some jobs are meant for people who need to build experience teaching basic courses.
However, I was also told there were maybe 3 viable candidates in that pool of ca. 20 - everyone else was just unqualified or clearly incompetent. If that's true, it should give hope.
My sense of temp jobs is that the schedule goes something like this: -week 1: apps collated, late materials arrive -weeks 2-3: apps read, shortlist made up -weeks 3-4: some kind of interviews, job offered
And if a dean or a bureaucrat or the entire faculty is involved, add a week. But I could be wrong. Anyone with a better idea?
Anyone know why the Georgetown ad from the March APA ads was reposted on Chronicle jobs this week? Is it a second position, or could they really not have gotten anyone qualified with the first ad?
Thanks, 7:20 PM, as the public wiki (the one I check regularly) hasn't been updated since April 1, I wasn't sure.
Re Georgetown: My assumption was just that they were doing the standard ads and that the Chronicle one had a longer time lag, but I don't totally discount the paranoid theory, either.
To Anon 5:14 PM, I'm in a history department and we're looking for a non-ancient 1 yr VAP. So it's not field specific, but I'll post our timeline fwiw.
We advertised in late March stating that we would make a decision in early May. We waited two weeks for apps to come in. Now a committee is reading them and will narrow that down to about 6 for the full department on Monday. Then the rest of the dep't will have a week to read through those apps. The following Monday, we'll meet and decide on our top two. We'll immediately call to arrange a visit to have the top candidate come out as soon as possible, and if they bomb, we'll move on to #2. Personally, I'm worried about our promised early May response, and I'll be pushing to update all candidates at that time.
I hope that my description of our timeframe is useful to you even if it is not a Classics position. I don't like the lack of prep time the candidate has before the visit, but it's likely that there won't be a teaching demo and that the job talk will be an informal "what are you working on" session. Basically, I feel the dep't is looking for someone who can teach the classes that are on the books for the fall (the spring is up to them) and that we all can cohabit with for the year.
So, I was talking to a colleague who is one of the people running CAMWS, and he/she was far from pleased to learn that so many schools schedule interviews there. Apparently, CAMWS was explicitly intended to be far more relaxing than the APA and not a meat market. But it seems to have turned into a mini version of the APA nonetheless.
To my knowledge there are only three schools interviewing at CAMWS (and I'm meeting with two of them.)
But I hear you. I've always loved going to CAMWS because it was so stress-free. I guess that'll no longer be the case.
As the market grows more competitive, it only makes sense for schools to interview at CAMWS. Gone is the day when a phone call from your dear old supervisor got you a position. As we've been seeing, one-year VAP positions are getting 20+ applicants. The only way to make a choice in some cases will be through face-to-face meetings.
While I don't like it (except that it seems to be working in my favor), I think that it is a fact of our discipline that we're going to have to accept.
But if CAMWS starts running its own placement service, then look out.
There's no reason why schools have to interview at CAMWS for one-year positions, as proven by the fact that most of them don't -- including both the top research programs and the top liberal arts schools. Moreover, it's unreasonable to expect job candidates who had to spend at least $500 to attend the APA to spend another $500-$800 or so attending CAMWS as well. Not to mention the fact that this year CAMWS was scheduled to practically overlap with Passover, meaning that some candidates potentially could have trouble making it.
None of the schools interviewing at CAMWS insist on meeting with people there. From the wiki you'll note that two of them (Iowa & Minnesota) contacted people to schedule phone OR CAMWS interviews. No poor candidate is being pressured to do anything.
Not this year but last year I had a CAMWS interview notification a week before the conference, and I wasn't given the option of a phone interview. I hadn't been planning to attend and I ended up spending over a month's rent to make the trip.... the interview was really superficial and of course it didn't lead anywhere! Heard some good talks though....
358 comments:
1 – 200 of 358 Newer› Newest»I think this thread would be most useful in two ways: 1) if anyone knows details about a temporary position (e.g., leave replacement, and if so, whose?, or will the position being advertised possibly turn into a renewal of the contract of a temp already in place? etc.), and 2) I've noticed temporary jobs sometimes get advertised on the professional lists (Classics-L, WCC) well before they make the APA listing - the APA listings last year advertised some jobs with a week to the due date - so maybe links to such job announcements could be posted here.
Does anyone know anything about the Villanova job except that they've sent out acknowledgment letters? It's become the Buehler question of this blog.
Buehler?
Wo ist der Buehler?
Buehler? Buehler?
"They bought it. Incredible. One of the worst performances of my career, and they never doubted it for a second."
Do most Spring jobs go directly to campus interviews, or do they interview at CANE, CAMWS, etc. first?
Does anyone know anything about the Villanova job except that they've sent out acknowledgment letters? It's become the Buehler question of this blog.
Is this the tenure-track 'Nova job or the short-term/adjuncting humanities job?
Anon. 3:10 (to Yuma?) -
Most spring jobs do phone interviews. Some do CAMWS et al. Some do campus after phone, but usually invite only 1 or 2 people.
Is this the tenure-track 'Nova job or the short-term/adjuncting humanities job?
TT.
What's with the label 'serf' attached to the Northwestern VAP on the wiki? Elucidation greatly appreciated!
The serf label, I believe, represents the teaching load. I know the current serf and he is a wee bit overworked...
Northwestern's course load is something like 3-3-3, at a not very good salary. The only thing worse in Classics Job Poker is 5-5.
Is 3-3-3 for all faculty at Northwestern?
Nope, Northwestern regular faculty teach 2-2 load (they teach just two out of three quarters a year). The 3-3-3 load for visiting instructors comes from the most brilliant decision by former chair and dean that teaching languages is much easier than teaching lecture courses, seeing as the language classes don't get enrollments. So the serf label is very appropriate in this case.
Speaking of serf, a few years back I was offered a VAP at a school that I will not name. The teaching load was 5-4 and the starting salary 22k.
When you say "a few years back," I'm really hoping that you mean in the 1960s. Because otherwise, that's unconscionable. (Even worse is the fact that I'm sure they filled it with someone grateful to have a job, any job.)
The 3-3-3 load is hardly the worst of it!
Every fall Daniel Linzer and Michael Mills formally declare war on all Northwestern VAPs. Northwestern graduate students in philosophy who have passed their qualifying exams are then sent out across campus, as well as to Gary, IN, Kenosha, WI, and the spaces under the El platform at Dempster (these being the nearest places where NU VAPs can actually afford to live), in order to beat up and steal the LSJs and OCTs of any NU VAPs they find. They then sell the books to UChicago classics grads at steep discounts.
Having done this the philosophy graduate students are then allowed to advance to candidacy. It's brutal, but it works. They tend to do quite well on the job market.
By a few years back I mean in 2005.
Who, teaching nine courses a year, would want to be at a school whose PhD program had its doors closed and whose junior TT faculty start at $70,000?
(Disclaimer: I applied for their job and hope I get it.)
I hope that 5/4 for 22k/year included an apartment, 21 meals a week at the dining hall and a free laundry service. Even then, that is some serious exploitation.
A couple of years ago, I saw a 4-4 in a city (not an overly expensive one, but still) paying $28k, which I thought was ludicrous, although the $22k beats it. Who can take a job like that with student loans? The independently wealthy?
And my mother-in-law thought I was lying when I told her that a salary in the fifties was good by most Classics standards...
There are two schools I know of (but alas, where I have never taught) that pay visitors 50 or 60K. The exception, of course, rather than the rule (and situational: in one case the visitor was exceptionally qualified).
Sometimes salary depends on whether or not you have a PhD. I would say some schools will pay ABDs in the 20's and no more.
I think the NU position is being singled out because it happens to be a particularly egregious case of exploitation by a wealthy, elite school.
Northwestern could afford to pay more, but the market let's them avoid that possibility. Anon 12:48's disclaimer says it all. Being worked to death is better than starving.
Most VAP or lecturer positions aren't like this. I know one VAP at a great SLAC who is making in the mid-50s with a 2/2 load. Her position is a better one than most T-T jobs, at least in terms of teaching and pay. Granted, it is only one year, but still...
Northwestern deserves to be singled out here because of the type of school it is. They have the resources, they just choose not to use them. Lovely.
I have VAP'd at 2 schools that pay 50k+. One had a 3/3 and one a 2/2. They also gave travel money and research money. It was very civilized.
Why not say the names of the 5-4 and 4-4 schools? I know that we don't discuss particular job candidates here, but there's no reason not to discuss programs.
Why not say the names of the 5-4 and 4-4 schools? I know that we don't discuss particular job candidates here, but there's no reason not to discuss programs.
I have mixed feelings about this. Programs are people, after all. At the same time, I think it is good for places like Northwestern to feel a bit of heat (not that they are paying much attention) over practices as discussed above.
But some schools pay in the 30s for loads of 4/4 or 5/5 because they simply don't have the resources to offer anything better. This isn't exploitation, this is a economics.
Any other thoughts out there on this?
The 4/4 school wasn't rich, but at the same time it wanted to up its research profile. I actually interviewed with them this year, and the salaries were much higher. They want to up their research profile, and I think they finally got the message that to do this, they need to pay higher salaries, so they were working on their endowments and restructuring budgets. Other schools with similar ambitions should take note. If they don't have the money, they don't have the money, but they should either find more money OR should not expect to hire top faculty (this particular school was interviewing graduates from top programs and then wondering why no one accepted their offers!).
But I have no desire to name names. This school was working hard to pay more, and they succeeded. Most of us apply to the jobs that are available, and then if we get offered the job, we can decide if the salary is too low. There's no point in 'outing' schools here -- particularly because it might embarrass the people who work there now.
At the end of the day, the unfortunate truth is that beggars can't be choosers. So if the only job I get this year pays very little and has a ridiculous course load, I'll take it. Sure, I'll bitch and moan about it, but I will take it. I would imagine most of us feel that way, and that is why schools like Northwestern STILL manage to fill the serf positions year after year with folks from top programs.
I'm beginning to realize I've made a terrible life choice... {I would post a link to the Simpsons clip, but there's some kind of copyright infringement nonsense that has stripped it from youtube}
Just one?
Don't make fun of the graduate students Bart, they were just culturally disposed to making poor life choices.
Time to vent...
Can I just say how annoying it is that schools sometimes require a "statement of teaching philosophy"? I mean, it's sort of possible to have one for civ/lit/history courses because you can't teach everything and therefore have to make choices about what to assign, but how the heck does one write something meaningful for a job that involves intro-level and/or intermediate Greek/Latin? Intro-level involves working through the textbook and giving regular quizzes and tests, and making sure that students understand the material well enough that they don't fall behind. Intermediate involves getting students used to reading genuine authors, instead of Wheelock-type sentences. So what counts as a "philosophy"? Whether to give three tests in a semester instead of a midterm and final?
I'm curious: does anyone out there think that he/she has come up with a full-page statement of teaching philosophy that isn't at least 80% b.s.? (I ask this as someone who has taught these courses and gotten good evaluations, so it's not as if I suck as a teacher and don't see the light for that reason. I just don't think that one's approach to teaching languages can be easily summarized in a paragraph or two.)
I am in absolute agreement about the utter uselessness of the "statement of teaching philosophy."
BUT I think you're thinking too literally. "Philosophy" does not mean "approaches" or "syllabus." (The latter is an interview question.) It means stuff like how you relate to your students, what kind of relationship you try to build with them, how you think learning is best achieved. Examples make it sound less wuzzy-fuzzy, and that is how you work in all those diverse courses: examples.
The University of Michigan has a useful site:
http://www.crlt.umich.edu/tstrategies/tstpum.html
You're kidding. THAT's what they mean? (No one ever told me, and this isn't my first time on the market.) Looking over those samples at Michigan -- thanks for that link, by the way -- I see that they are all at least 50% b.s., laden with buzzwords that don't always mean that much. (And get a look at the one from the person in Asian studies -- he/she devotes a full paragraph to how/why he/she goes about learning students' names at the beginning of the semester! This person got a job off that philosophy statement?!?)
Anon. 9:01 -
Still in total agreement with you. I'm not sure there's any way to make them not sound like b. s. I've certainly never succeeded. But the point is really reassurance, especially for smaller, teaching-oriented schools, that you're not some kind of evil demon in the classroom and won't scar their precious charges for life.
I really try to think of it as an essay introducing them to my teaching style, heavy with concrete (yet general) examples, thus eliminating the buzzwords as much as possible.
When I'm questioning whether or not to apply for a job, sometimes whether they require such a statement makes me decide against applying, so much do I hate the exercise.
I doubt that these are departmental requirements, but rather something that HR and/or the Dean's office, in all their infinite wisdom, cooked up.
Just send some boilerplate b.s. and you will be fine. Nobody ever reads the t.p., they just want to know that it is there.
Nobody ever reads the t.p., they just want to know that it is there.
This is very true. One of the first things I do when entering any bathroom is to make sure that the t.p. is there. I don't remember ever reading it, for that matter.
What the - ? Have you all seen the March 1 ads? There is one job! (unless you have an MLS or are a master teacher)
What the - ? Have you all seen the March 1 ads? There is one job!
All the school are in holing patterns until more people begin accepting TT offers and tell their departments. I suspect March 15 ad April 1 will be this big lists.
Perhaps fewer searches failed this year, necessitating fewer VAPs.
Or maybe junior scholars are happy in their current positions (good fit first time around), so few people are switching jobs and announcing their departure in mid-February (a situation often feeding the spring market).
In any case, if either of the above suggestions is correct, it means that search committees are doing their jobs really well, both in terms of filling positions and filling them with the right candidates!
This made me laugh:
"All the school are in holing patterns . . ." (@ 3:21).
This reminded me to be a good sport:
"Perhaps fewer searches failed this year, necessitating fewer VAPs" (@ 3:35).
But I think my email program go it just right. For the first time it put Renie's email in the spam folder. Swarthmore's not going to know what's hit it (other than dozens of applications).
I disagree with the previous comments - I know from experience the March 1 ads are usually much larger. I suspect the dearth is because there were so many jobs in the fall. Most VAP positions, btw, do not result from failed searches for t-t; it's the exception rather than the rule. Most visiting positions are endemic (short-staffed department) or leave-replacements.
I dug up last year's "March Early Edition" and it had 2 vap jobs, total. I second the idea that the mid-March and April listings will have more.
If the average number of applications to a general fall job numbers over 100, how many do spring searches yield? 50, 60?
I think it depends. Some of those 100 applicants for the fall jobs will be grad students who still have funding if nothing materializes, or people with renewable contracts. And it depends on the job: if a place wants someone to teach a grad seminar on, e.g., Thucydides or the Greek novel, and says that in their ad, they probably will get fewer applications, from those who really are qualified.
I'd bet 40-60, too. Anyone know for sure?
If a place wants you to teach a course entitled Thucydides and The Greek Novel, don't bother applying. There is an inside candidate.
My department received 30 applications for its one-year position (late February deadline). I don't know if this number is typical.
If a place wants you to teach a course entitled Thucydides and The Greek Novel, don't bother applying. There is an inside candidate.
Hey - there are lots of correlations between Thucydides and the Greek novel!
Hey - there are lots of correlations between Thucydides and the Greek novel!
None interesting.
Hey - there are lots of correlations between Thucydides and the Greek novel!
I'm sure there are, and I bet half of them are actually interesting. But I won't bother applying for that job because you, Dr. Thucydidean, will be the inside candidate. I can't compete, and I'm just interested in inscriptions.
Wow! A hypothetical--and highly unlikely--job description has gotten people up in arms about an inside candidate!
No, not at all! I'm not up in arms, I'm just fooling around! :-)
Really! :-)
{see, emoticons!}
Lucian's "True History" is a Greek novel and parodies Thucydides.
I write this as a Latinist/Roman historian, so if I know this the rest of you should...
(Also, the CHCL section on ancient novels specifically states that the origins of the novel are unknown, but Thucydides was among the likely influences.)
That's as ridiculous as a book on, ooh I don't know, say, Thucydides and...[pulling an author out of thin air]...Pindar. Hah.
Hold on...
That author's name works well with the James Bond "Goldfinger" theme. Scans the same, stress is the same.
Re: AI 4:09
"Swarthmore's not going to know what's hit it (other than dozens of applications)."
I call dibs on the Swarthmore position.
So, let me just make sure I'm up to speed: A famous professor of Greek history wrote an improbable book in order to be the inside candidate for a fictitious position in order to cover for his eventual domination of the world through lasciviously named women and extremely heavy fake tan. There's also a white cat and a butler with a deadly hat, though I'm not sure how to work that into the aforementioned VAP job description.
Wow. I just wanted to say: you people are amazing and I love you.
Absolutely right! (If slightly Herodotean...)
No, Anon. 7:14 PM. We love you.
That may be the best posting I've read on this entire blog in months.
Re: AI 4:09
"Swarthmore's not going to know what's hit it (other than dozens of applications)."
I call dibs on the Swarthmore position.
Damn. Can I call shotgun?
And it depends on the job: if a place wants someone to teach a grad seminar on, e.g., Thucydides or the Greek novel, and says that in their ad, they probably will get fewer applications, from those who really are qualified.
I'd bet 40-60, too. Anyone know for sure?
Yes, one university that advertised a Republican culture/lit TT position this year received about that many applications (c 40). They then offered the position to a candidate who works on the final decade of the C4 CE. The lesson there, it would seem, is to toss in your application everywhere. Like the lottery, "hey, you never know."
If that's the job I think it was, there was an extra desideratum for that search that the 4th-cent. person met.
So most temporary jobs don't have a lengthy search timeline in which to notify of receipt of applications, etc. Mostly candidates don't hear from them until an interview is set up or the offer made without an interview. How long, do you all think is too long to have heard from a temporary job? In other words, when should you cross that option off your list? Based on my past experience, a month?
If that's the job I think it was, there was an extra desideratum for that search that the 4th-cent. person met.
March 9, 2008 11:26 AM
If I have *you* right, not one desideratum but several. I doubt the candidate thought they were merely throwing another unlikely application on the pile. That said, institutions can change their minds over the course of a search. Several Latin prose / poetry job ads this year seem to have been labelled entirely too narrowly given what came out in interviews.
So, is the lesson here that one should grab a shotgun instead of a sniper rifle?
No, the lesson is to grab a revolver and stick it under your chin. OR get a time machine and pay attention when learning algebra.
I've been doing some poking around in the Chronicle fora, and there seems to be a common practice of ranking candidates for VAPs, flying out the top choice for a yea or nay vote, and then having the second choice visit campus only if the first one is a nay. Is this method commonly used in Classics depts?
That's not uncommon.
A few years ago I had a slightly difference situation: an on-campus invitation after being told (by someone I knew and trusted) that the job was essentially mine, but the whole department wanted to meet me first. Talk about a no-pressure situation. The only way I could have lost that job would have been if I had thrown up on the Japanese prime minister.
ah, there's nothing more warm and fuzzy than a shared set of cultural reference points... (cf. the Buelher ref. above)
Does someone know about the U. of Akron search: did it go right to campus visits?
Re: Akron, on-campus invites were extended on 2.15.08 via e-mail (and telephone).
I take it that you're saying Akron went straight to campus visits. Note to self: get applications done on time.
I know someone called dibs on Swarthmore, and someone else called shotgun, but I sent in my application anyway today. Why say this? Just in case anyone is counting how many apps that job's going to get. So far the count seems to be 3.
"I take it that you're saying Akron went straight to campus visits. Note to self: get applications done on time."
Don't be too hard on yourself. This position has the dubious distinction of having not one, but TWO, internal candidates!
[Ducking now from objects thrown by conspiracy theorists AND violent, grumpy SC members]
Make that four.
FOUR internal candidates? How many adjuncts do they have on staff?
I think he meant four applications to Swarthmore (although I thought the same thing as you until I looked at the time stamps).
Doh! Sorry, my post was out of context. I meant that I will be Swarthmore applicant number four.
This is what my post should have looked like:
I know someone called dibs on Swarthmore, and someone else called shotgun, but I sent in my application anyway today. Why say this? Just in case anyone is counting how many apps that job's going to get. So far the count seems to be 3.
Make that four.
Though I would have really loved to watch the fur fly if people thought that Akron had four internal candidates. Hee hee hee. ^-)
"FOUR internal candidates? How many adjuncts do they have on staff?"
That would make for some interesting lunchtime conversation or interactions in the cube/office/dungeon/where-ever-they-stick-their-adjuncts.
On a side note, I'm not sure if this is the appropriate thread, but what are people who struck out in the TT search doing for backups in case VAPs/post-docs don't come through? How many are in the position? I know there is some discussion in the Chronicle fora, but it would be interesting to hear from classicists.
On a side note, I'm not sure if this is the appropriate thread, but what are people who struck out in the TT search doing for backups in case VAPs/post-docs don't come through? How many are in the position?
I am. My department can usually find us something around here, so I'll end up teaching sections of Latin or, if I am unlucky, Myth. But at least I know I won't starve.
I'd much prefer, however, to have a position at Swarthmore. As would about 60 (at least that is my guess on the applicant pool) other poor souls.
On a side note, I'm not sure if this is the appropriate thread, but what are people who struck out in the TT search doing for backups in case VAPs/post-docs don't come through? How many are in the position?
I am. My department can usually find us something around here, so I'll end up teaching sections of Latin or, if I am unlucky, Myth. But at least I know I won't starve.
I'd much prefer, however, to have a position at Swarthmore. As would about 60 (at least that is my guess on the applicant pool) other poor souls.
ECHO?......Echo?.......echo?
Darn it! Sorry for the double-posting, again. I am having serious browser issues lately.
verb. sap.
Don't upgrade to Vista. It frickin' blows.
Make that 5 Swarthmore applications! Can we keep a counter somewhere?
My back-up is to hope the place I'm visiting full-time at can indeed give me part-time work next year. Or that the colleague threatening to leave does so. Slim hopes, both.
I'm a 1-year VAP at a place that didn't have an opening for this coming year, so if I get nothing I'm screwed. Not to engage in class warfare, but I do hope that search committees take into account the fact that people out of grad school are far less likely to have a fallback option than current grads.
Like Anon 10:57, my one-year has no opportunity for renewal (mine's a sabbatical replacement), so it's a late VAP or nothing.
-Swarthmore applicant #3 (knowing now that I'm in good company, seconding the call for the counter [is it appropriate?], and predicting the # of apps will be closer to 100 than 50)
Yup, that's me.
A kick-ass call-sign, huh?
Maybe we can run a pool. Everybody guesses how many applications Swat is going to get and the person who is closest to the final tally gets the job. It saves the Swat folks a ton of work, we have more fun, and we actually have a bit more control over the process than usual. Tie-breaker goes to the person who is closest to the gender breakdown.
My exact guess is 84 total apps.
51 male, 33 female.
Not to engage in class warfare, but I do hope that search committees take into account the fact that people out of grad school are far less likely to have a fallback option than current grads.
I doubt that this is taken into account - it is not any SCs job to be charitable - but I think those out of grad school have more teaching experience and have letters from people (chairs, colleagues, etc.) who have no vested interest in having them succeed, thus they are more appealing to SCs for temp positions anyway.
Too bad that doesn't do us experienced types any good in the fall market.
Well, I'm Swarthmore Suitor no. 7.
This is for a one-year job, so the total number of applicants will be relatively small. Magic 8-Ball says:
51
Aren't there more women in this field than men?
29 women
22 men
I doubt that this is taken into account - it is not any SCs job to be charitable...
Of course not. But they should recognize that it doesn't benefit the field to lose good people. If there are two candidates of comparable quality then the one who doesn't have the option of staying in grad school should get the job. It's for the good of the field, not charity.
In the spirit of EO/AA forms we fill out, I say we guess number, gender, and ethnic affiliation:
101
63f/48m
98 caucasian/1 african-american/1 Asian-Pacific Islander/1 other
That should be 111,not 101. That's why I went into the humanities...
Have any of the VAP jobs with late February/early March deadlines have contacted people yet for phone interviews? I thought they'd want to resolve this nightmare as quickly as we do...
Bear with me because I'm an ABD newbie, but the sense I get is that there are a BUNCH of Ph.D.s out there in danger of getting put on the street. HOW can departments not push to expand curriculum to provide some jobs? Surely if departments taught "The Life of Alexander" or "The Trojan War" classes will draw students. Isn't that what it's about? Supply and demand? You get students, you can offer a class and provide jobs? I am missing something?
Disgustedandconfused,
You've got it about right. But of course, departments shouldn't be in the business of expanding simply to provide jobs; plus, this year is no different from any other year. But if more popular courses are offered (and by popular professors!) enrollments will go up. Even then, though, getting the administration to approve adding a new tenure stream to a classics department is complex and the factors will vary from school to school, so it's not like there can be overnight success. And sometimes there are factors working against this. (For example, I once taught a course on the "Ancient Novel" that had only eight students. It probably would have had twice that number if it had been cross-listed with the English Department. But even though the course would be of great value to English majors (and students of other European literature), the English Dept.'s faculty didn't see it that way, thus depriving Classics of additional students for that course. There's nothing you can do about that sort of thing.)
I'm not even saying for TT positions. It sounds like jobless people out there will take just about any reasonable position. You know, at least several thousand for each class allowing someone to cobble together enough money to get by.
And I don't think it will just be about providing jobs. Isn't it also about raising the profile of classics and sharing its rich literature, history, and culture with the mainstream student body?
...the sense I get is that there are a BUNCH of Ph.D.s out there in danger of getting put on the street.
I get this sense, too, but how many are there, actually? I count about 3 in the posts above. I'll say there's one right here. Others?
I suspect that a fair number of jobs will be announced in April. Not enough to take care of everyone by any means, but enough to keep your hopes up. That doesn't mean you shouldn't start thinking about back-up plans, but be prepared to channel your inner generalist and to send out anywhere from four to ten more applications.
About the spring market:
If a fall search with APA interviews and campus visits fails to fill, do they often re-list the position in the spring as a one-year temporary position? Or do they go back through their applicants and try to find somebody there, for the one-year? In other words, if I haven't heard from a place since Chicago, but it isn't listed as offered or accepted, should I still have some hope?
It depends - who is in charge of the search, how much power do they have, how much do they and others care? My advice? Move on...don't expect any failed searches to become VAPs and you will be pleasantly surprised if one comes calling.
I know of a few PhDs (myself included) who don't have jobs yet. I would guess that there are probably twenty or thirty people out there in a similar situation. I don't have a back-up and I won't teach high school. I'd rather leave the field than accept a pale shadow of what I really want.
Maybe 20-30 philologists, but if you include ancient historians, art historians, and archaeologists, it's probably more like 100.
100+ people competing for how many spring market jobs? 20? 30? This is not good. I agree with the poster before "Will work for food/insurance" - people who are in real danger should get bonus points. Grad students that CAN be taken care of by their departments should NOT be on the spring market. Period. I know this smacks of class-warfare, so hear me out.
Departments could actually help solve this issue if they changed the way TA-ships are awarded. instead of having first, second and third year students teaching sections and serving as TAs, they should award those slots only to those who actually need them. Then students at the beginning of their programs could actually finish their qualifying exams and coursework before they have the added burden of teaching, grading, etc. This would speed-up the finishing time and free the teaching positions for later in the program, like now, when we are faced with trying to find a job in private industry in order to make it until next APA. The current system is such a bassackwards way of running things. Ugh!
"I don't have a back-up and I won't teach high school. I'd rather leave the field than accept a pale shadow of what I really want."
I'm sure most people here, myself included, would agree. That posting for 125k in New York, however... amo, amas, amat...
I'm sure most people here, myself included, would agree. That posting for 125k in New York, however... amo, amas, amat...
Damn, I was hoping nobody else knew about that! :-)
Yes, although, if you read the NYTimes article, one of the current applicants has had a Ph.D. in Latin for 30 years and founded his own school in the meanwhile...
Yes, one university that advertised a Republican culture/lit TT position this year received about that many applications (c 40). They then offered the position to a candidate who works on the final decade of the C4 CE. The lesson there, it would seem, is to toss in your application everywhere. Like the lottery, "hey, you never know."
That makes perfect sense. If you are looking for somebody who works on Republican lit and culture then who would know that stuff better than an expert on how and why empires go in the toilet?
I think their diss. has the very 18th century sounding title: "Ann Coulter, the Culture of Corruption, and Dubya's Continuing Clusterfuck or, Rome Re-Visited". They went to a very interdisciplinary program.
These schools are not getting 100 applications, not for one-year positions in late spring. They're certainly not getting many good applications, either: not too long ago I was at a very good place that was sorting through applications for a VAP Latinist position in April/May and the chair told me that there were only a handful of good applications, and only two candidates who stood out. So by now, many of the best candidates have jobs, or have re-upped for another year in grad school.
March APA Listings:
Not great. Not pitiful. But not great.
Where are the Hellenist positions?
March 18th jobs-
Pretty bad, in my opinion. I had seen most of these already through the Chronicle or WCC.
The listings are pretty bad if you aren't yet employed for next year.
But, but but, please be assured that this is actually a pretty decent crop for March, and, given how long many tenure-track searches are taking to resolve, it wouldn't surprise me if April was at least average, if not above.
Regarding the earlier lament about the lack of Hellenist positions. You're not going to get Greek jobs per se listed this time of year. Most departments will be looking for the best available athlete, not a backup 3rd baseman. If you're just starting out, you're actually better off picking up a range of experience in a job that doesn't focus on Greek.
The listings are pretty bad if you aren't yet employed for next year.
I'm sure this supposed to make us feel better.
Ummmmm.... It don't.
Yeah, Swat, those x-rays wouldn't look nearly so bad if you hadn't shattered your tibia in three places.
For all those aspiring VAPs and adjuncts out there:
If at first you don't succeed...
Yep, with the first day of spring and the approach of April, I think it's safe to say that the TT job market is finished with the exception of a few stragglers. You can sense that we've turned the corner.
Good luck to all the homeless out there...
So is anything happening with any temporary jobs that advertised after the APA? I see a few references to phone interviews on the wiki, but that's it.
How about we have a counter for how many people are still jobless? Individuals could add and remove themselves once they received a position. I think it will give a good indicator about how our field is doing.
How about we have a counter for how many people are still jobless? Individuals could add and remove themselves once they received a position. I think it will give a good indicator about how our field is doing.
The problem is that the counter would be limited to people who actually know about this blog which, judging from the number of my colleagues, isn't that many. Look at how many claimed to be applying to the Swarthmore job. Surely they will get many more than seven!
Has anyone looked closely at the U of Iowa job: a 3/2 schedule, 4 of those being lecture classes??!!?? As someone who is now considering a fourth temporary position, I have never, NEVER seen such a rank attempt at exploitation by a university of this caliber. How can the tenured and TT faculty sit back in good conscience and let a temporary person do the lion's share of lecturing? Sadly, those of us still looking to land something for next year will doubtlessly accept such trash. Shame on them.
I am sure no one at IU will lose an ounce of sleep over what people think about their position, nor will they feel any compunction while they exploit whomever they get...
A 3/2 load is actually quite cushy. There are plenty of VAPs out there withs 4/4 and 3/3 loads. In terms of lectures, unless you are a "privileged" humanities scholar in a decent TT position, you don't usually get to skip out on lectures to teach "Cicero's early works" or "Pigherding in Homer." All ancient historians, all archaeologists, and many philologists in TT positions teach large lecture classes. Many even enjoy them.
I would second the above opinion about this kind of position being cushy. Besides, you should really see big lecture classes not as an unjust burden but as a challenge. Face the challenge bravely and as best as you can, and you will think better of yourself and others will think better of you.
I would second the above opinion about this kind of position being cushy. Besides, you should really see big lecture classes not as an unjust burden but as a challenge. Face the challenge bravely and as best as you can, and you will think better of yourself and others will think better of you.
Was this supposed to be a good riff on Tyrtaeus, or am I just feeling cynical?
Actually, the professors who give the big lecture classes to VAP's may be doing this as a favor, strange as this may sound. It is easy enough for old hands, you see, to teach those courses that they have done so many times before. It is often actually easier than teaching smaller ones, where you have to remember the students' names, talk with them in class etc. For newly minted Ph.D.'s on the other hand, doing large introductory lectures is both great on-the-job training and looks good on their resumes. Believe me, you will be really glad one day that you had the chance of teaching Homer and Vergil, in their entirety, in English, to hordes of clueless undergraduates.
Large lectures are somewhat cushy. You do the same amount of prep (or perhaps a bit more) as you would for, say, a Greek Civ seminar at a SLAC, but because of the size of the class you either have TA's doing the grading or give quizzes online (where, of course, cheating can occur). There are no written assignments to grade, again because of the size. With Iowa specifically, it might even be that 40-60% of the materials in your two courses overlap (if doing Myth and Greek Lit the same semester), and if you're clever you'll sometimes even give the same lecture on the same day.
The Iowa job is not exploitation - take it from someone at a major R1 who is teaching 3-3, with half of those large lecture courses. That kind of course is easy once you get used it, and presuming you're comfortable talking to 200+ students in a huge auditorium. And 3-2 for a temporary job is sweet.
The Northwestern job, that's exploitation (3-3-3, low pay).
The Iowa job is WONDERFUL, you'll feel like a true colleague while the other profs teach one or two lecture courses a year. Lectures are only "cushy" if you don't care much about properly preparing for them.
...or if you've been around so long that you've taught the material many times.
Exactly, as the only historian in my department, I'm on the hook for both introductory Greek and Roman history, which both draw over 100 students. I've taught these courses since grad school and I haven't needed notes since I left. I guess it's all about perspective and one's background, but I consider these my cushy classes. I sure as hell won't let my colleagues know though.
Has anyone else noticed the uncool Minnesota is doing? They have two one-year positions: a VAP who teaches a 2-2 load, and a visiting lecturer who gets a 3-3 load. That will NOT be good for esprit de corps: if I were the Romanist lecturer, I'd resent the fact that the other person has a lighter teaching load, better title, and (undoubtedly) higher salary. I realize that part of the reason (or all of it?) must be that the VAP is expected to teach more advanced classes, but this two-caste system strikes me as unusual. I know that when I taught for two years at a similar state university I taught a grad class one of those years but not the other, and yet my title, salary, etc. were no different. And those were two distinct one-years, not a two-year.
It's probably the deans behind this and not the faculty, but it's still a pretty lousy thing to do.
revision: "...uncool THING Minnesota...
The Minnesota Hellenist job is a leave replacement, the other isn't. So I would imagine that's a university regulation on course load etc. the department can't get around.
And isn't it already bad for esprit de corps for academia to basically rely on serfdom, no matter what the course load?
Admittedly, this is a personal gripe, but others here may have some reaction. After surfing the tenure-track market without success now for several cycles, I think that one thing that is most frustrating (among many sources of frustration) is how non-constructive the job process is, and perhaps this hints more strongly than anything at how arbitrary the whole thing really can be. Upfront the candidate prepares and submits materials, sending them off into the ether; many times, those materials are lost in oblivion, consumed by trolls or sucked into wormholes, or whatever. The candidate is hard-pressed to gain any perspective or feed-back, especially when many SCs seem barely able to communicate, much less provide feedback. As researchers we are conditioned to seek (and provide) constructive feedback from (and to) colleagues. While (owing to volume) we candidates can't expect this from SCs, at least some sort of nominal communication, especially for those interviewed and those invited to campus, should not be too much to ask ... even if the end result is "Dear Candidate A: we have hired Candidate B, thank you for your interest, yada-yada", this would be an improvement upon the deafening silence that often prevails (and certainly an improvement over these 'check-list' rejections or 'Dear Applicant' xeroxes). On this blog many comments - a great majority of them constructive - have been posted, many issues raised - how does the community actualize these issues? How do we effect change? If we all (or most of us, on most days) want the discipline of classics and its associated constellation of disciplines to thrive into the 21st century and beyond, an eye toward professionalism on the part of institutions would serve everyone for the better.
... and one could add to the last post that the great majority of candidates demonstrate exceedingly professional behavior, both in person with institutions and at a distance, walking on eggs 24-7 for weeks, no months, in hopes that the job process turns out well. so where's the reciprocity on the institutional side? and even tho the APA produces their somewhat incomplete placement report, we all want for an independent ombudsman telling institutions how to do it better.
What bothers me is that classics, and I presume the humanities disciplines, are slow to use "real-time," electronic application process. For those from universities that require it, I've noticed that they circumvent them by still requiring old-fashioned, hard-copy applications. IF, we were forced to totally go online, apps could not be "lost" and it would presumably be easier to update the applicants and provide feedback in a comments section. I know, we'll all be tenured or out of the field by the time this happens...
Speaking of communication and rejection letters. I saw this on the Chronicle Fora (if Oseph is reading this, well done man, well done!):
If you wrote the rejection letters...
Hilarious!
Anyone heard anything about Long Island University (ancient/medieval history)? They were supposedly interviewing in March...
Does everyone else get the feeling that the short-term market is tardy in moving on their applications, or am I just on the ignore list? And I'm not talking about receipt notices. Can anyone shed light on the searches at these schools:
UCLA - 1 year
Northwestern - 2 years
Iowa State - 3 years
Wabash - 1 year
College of Charleston - 1 year
Utah - 1 year
U. of Iowa - 3 years
Idaho - TT
Indiana - 2 1 years
Colgate - 1 year
Brigham Young - 2 years
BYU's deadline was 3/22, so I don't expect much out of them - but UCLA's deadline was 2/15, which for those of us without jobs for next year seems like an eternity.
I have a similar question about temp jobs. This is the info I know:
-I suspect the Colgate job has just turned into a contract renewal.
-College of Charleston has just started reviewing apps, but their acknowledgment letter says they won't be in touch till the position is definitely funded. No sense given of when that might be.
But yeah, I'd like to know about most of these schools too. As would others, I'm sure.
I am guessing/hoping that a lot of schools have been on spring break/are on spring break and will be moving onto the next stage soon?
I have no info on any of those schools, unfortunately, positively or negatively.
Iowa's interviewing at CAMWS, so they're not even close to hiring someone.
I know Iowa (and Minnesota) will both interview at CAMWS - but has anyone been contacted about an interview?
Has anyone heard back re: campus visits from schools that are done with phone interviews (specifically, Franklin&Marshall and Washington&Lee)?
Are you sure that Washington & Lee is done? Their deadline is March 31. If so, that's pretty reprehensible.
Perhaps W&L just wanted to do some phone interviews as applications come in? It doesn't necessary mean they will not be doing more phone interviews.
I heard that W&L sent their ad to selected schools well before their deadline, so they got apps from those selected schools to interview. They may plan to do more after the deadline.
That's why on this thread people should share such pre-advertised jobs.
True. W&L did send out their job notice before it appeared through the APA Placement Service.
I applied early, was rejected early. It was - I think - the first time I was ever rejected before a deadline. It's hard to remember; over the last four years I've applied to 194 positions, 63 this year alone. Got a job for next year? Nope.
It must be that you're not from Harvard. W&L loves to hire people from Harvard.
Keep on trying. You only need to get lucky once.
U-Iowa has requested phone/CAMWS interviews (em).
Any word out there on the 3-year VAP in archaeology at Bowdoin?
Don't know if this was published above:
Visiting Assistant Professor of Classics at Lewis & Clark College
(Portland, OR). Classes to cover will likely include first- or
second-year Greek and Latin, Greek and/or Roman History, and a College
Core course (great books).
I didn't see any Lewis and Clark listing... where is it from?
There's also no such listing in the Chronicle, HigherEdJobs.com, or the Lewis and Clark employment website. More details, like materials required and an address, would be nice!
I got the listing through the WCC.
Here's the contact info from the WCC e-mail. No more info than that.
Contact: Nicholas D. Smith (ndsmith@lclark.edu)
What is WCC?
Re. 9:33 PM:
WCC = Women's Classical Caucus. Job announcements are often posted on the WCC list before they make it to the APA list, etc. Also, WCC is very inexpensive to join (especially for students).
But if it is advertised on the WCC, it's only for women, right?
What are we men to do? Form the MCC? Man jobs only?
Oh, right...can't say that.
The WCC is open to everyone:
http://www.wccaucus.org/
The WCC is open to everyone. It's probably the best and most accessible forum for discussion of professional issues relating to the field (other than this blog of course), they can also provide a lot of good data on professional matters. I vaguely remember hearing about a good discussion at one of their meetings on the lack of women in Roman history.
(Btw I'm a man, and a lapsed member of the WCC, so a lazy, cheap man at that.)
"What are we men to do? Form the MCC? Oh, right...can't say that."
Material Culture Club? How dare you utter those dirty words on here. No job for you...one year. Now go up to your room and read Catullus until you see the error of your ways...
I love the idea of the Material Culture Club. We could un-mothball Boy George and have him lead a trio of poorly-dressed archaeologists.
That's what our discipline needs.
The WCC is open to everyone. It's probably the best and most accessible forum for discussion of professional issues relating to the field (other than this blog of course), they can also provide a lot of good data on professional matters. I vaguely remember hearing about a good discussion at one of their meetings on the lack of women in Roman history.
(Btw I'm a man, and a lapsed member of the WCC, so a lazy, cheap man at that.)
STRONGLY SECONDED to both. Happily to the former, sadly to the latter. I need to get my act in gear and re-join.
Could someone who is a WCC member just cut and paste the listing here, so the rest of us can see it?
Could someone who is a WCC member just cut and paste the listing here, so the rest of us can see it?
Here's the posting as it appeared in the email:
Visiting Assistant Professor of Classics at Lewis & Clark College (Portland, OR). Classes to cover will likely include first- or second-year Greek and Latin, Greek and/or Roman History, and a College Core course (great books).
Contact: Nicholas D. Smith (ndsmith@lclark.edu)
Has anyone else emailed this Nicholas Smith at Lewis & Clark and had your email returned? The email listed here is what appears on L&C's website.
Maybe the first person who emails automatically gets the job?
I got a response, and wasn't offered the job...
Does anyone have any news on the following spring jobs:
Swarthmore
Cornell
Georgetown
Minnesota
Gettysburg
Howard
Kenyon
Long Island U.
Santa Clara?
In new job openings that people may not have seen yet:
Penn State (University Park, middle of PA): 1-year classics, 5 courses: http://chronicle.com/jobs/id.php?id=0000554659-01&pg=s&cc=
What I know:
Swarthmore - no news
Cornell - faculty are reading files
Georgetown - zero
Minnesota - zilch
Gettysburg - nada
Howard - deadline hasn't passed yet
Kenyon - phone interviews this afternoon
Long Island U. - tipota
Santa Clara - nihil
I can add that Bowdoin did phone interviews a week or so ago.
Could people post things like phone interviews or any info about temp jobs on the wiki as it becomes available? That's what it's for, after all...the silence in the spring market is almost as bad as the silence pre-wiki, and the wiki is here to combat that, after all - it's not just for t-t jobs that interview at the APA.
Any info about:
UCLA
Northwestern
Iowa State
College of Charleston
U. of Utah
U. of Idaho
BYU
U. of Oklahoma
Lewis & Clark
12:38 PM: I'd be happy to post definite info on the wiki; I was asking here more about rumors/gossip/faint fragments of data.
I heard Charleston was reviewing apps. OU wrote ten days or so ago to say they'd have a decision in 2-3 weeks. Nothing on any of the others.
Gettysburg is compiling a shortlist this week.
The University of Idaho is phone interviewing candidates this week.
Why the silence?
I can't believe that none of the searches aren't moving on candidates. C'mon people, fill the rest of us in! Knowledge is power.
I completely agree with the last poster. Things like phone/campus interviews or job offers for temp jobs should be posted on the wiki when known. In fact, this is even more important on the temp market than the t-t market, since in the spring decisions must be made more quickly and candidates usually have even less idea where they stand in relation to other searches.
I've been posting what I know or hear from reliable sources. Please, let's all do the same.
I (anon. 2:24) post everything I know.
Perhaps the silence is a good sign. I.e., no decisions have yet been made on these positions. I.e., I still have a chance. I.e., I won't have to eat cat food.
However, I doubt this is the case, and I suspect that a good number of the recently advertised positions are already filled.
So now I need to decide whether I prefer Meow Mix or Purina. Iams and Science Diet are just too damned expensive.
I'd skip Meow Mix. Kind on the wallet, sure, but I think it's the grade that's made from . . . pets.
I prefer ramen. Even cheaper!
I forget what Swarthmore number I was...
Regardless, I don't think it's time to start choosing cat food brands yet. In my experience, it takes temporary jobs 4 weeks or so after deadline to make an offer (unless they're really organized, which tends not to happen when one is dealing with academics). By my count, that eliminates UCLA and Northwestern and Charleston, and anything else due before 3/10. However, there should be more news about phone/campus/CAMWS interviews out there, I think. I do think those should be recorded, and also job offers - no one is asking for names, just the knowledge that position X is not likely to be theirs.
On size of applicant pools: I happen to know my school's VAP got less than 20 applications. But I know a much less desirable school asking for the same specialty got almost 40. Go figure.
Science Diet is overrated, just like Oral-B toothbrushes. The first ingredient is never protein. It's what gets pushed on us by professionals. I would try Dick Van Patten's Natural Balance - not too unreasonable in price and much more variety for your diet than ramen. Next year at the APA, you'll have a gleaming head of hair to boot.
"On size of applicant pools: I happen to know my school's VAP got less than 20 applications."
Still, 20 presumably homeless people. I understand 100 apps for a TT position might not mean much b/c many already have jobs or can stay at their home department, but 20 apps for a VAP scares me much more for some reason. Happily, I'm on the other side of a contract myself...
campus visits from schools that are done with phone interviews (specifically, Franklin&Marshall and Washington&Lee)?
Just so you know, W&L is still doing phone interviews as of today.
Thanks for the tip, toonces. Maybe next year's APA can have a 'shiniest coat' contest?
I hear what you're saying, Anon. 3:54. 20 VAP applications scare me too, but, then again, I'm scared of just about everything right now (joblessness, my own shadow). Thanks to my area of specialization, there are many, many VAPs I just can't apply for--waste of a stamp (worth 1 1/2 packets of ramen, right there!).
20 VAP applications is scary indeed, but figure that a good number of them will be from ABDs. While ABDs may rule (or at least have one advantage on) the TT market, those who are out teaching have the leg up on ABDs who weren't snatched up in the TT food frenzy. At this point many schools just want a warm body to prop up in front of a class. Or so I think.
But since I don't have a job yet for next year, I clearly don't know what I'm talking about.
(That was meant for this board, not the other. Since I can't even write on a blog correctly, there is no hope for me.)
Well...I'm the one who mentioned the 20 VAP applications. Job went to an ABD (albeit one with a definite defense date already). I think for some jobs experience matters, others not so much. And some jobs are meant for people who need to build experience teaching basic courses.
However, I was also told there were maybe 3 viable candidates in that pool of ca. 20 - everyone else was just unqualified or clearly incompetent. If that's true, it should give hope.
My sense of temp jobs is that the schedule goes something like this:
-week 1: apps collated, late materials arrive
-weeks 2-3: apps read, shortlist made up
-weeks 3-4: some kind of interviews, job offered
And if a dean or a bureaucrat or the entire faculty is involved, add a week. But I could be wrong. Anyone with a better idea?
Um...which job? Inquiring minds want to start crossing possibilities off the list.
Anyone know why the Georgetown ad from the March APA ads was reposted on Chronicle jobs this week? Is it a second position, or could they really not have gotten anyone qualified with the first ad?
Anon. 6:17 pm,
If you're asking about the job with ca. 20 applicants, it's already been listed as offered on the wiki.
Thanks, 7:20 PM, as the public wiki (the one I check regularly) hasn't been updated since April 1, I wasn't sure.
Re Georgetown: My assumption was just that they were doing the standard ads and that the Chronicle one had a longer time lag, but I don't totally discount the paranoid theory, either.
To Anon 5:14 PM, I'm in a history department and we're looking for a non-ancient 1 yr VAP. So it's not field specific, but I'll post our timeline fwiw.
We advertised in late March stating that we would make a decision in early May. We waited two weeks for apps to come in. Now a committee is reading them and will narrow that down to about 6 for the full department on Monday. Then the rest of the dep't will have a week to read through those apps. The following Monday, we'll meet and decide on our top two. We'll immediately call to arrange a visit to have the top candidate come out as soon as possible, and if they bomb, we'll move on to #2. Personally, I'm worried about our promised early May response, and I'll be pushing to update all candidates at that time.
I hope that my description of our timeframe is useful to you even if it is not a Classics position. I don't like the lack of prep time the candidate has before the visit, but it's likely that there won't be a teaching demo and that the job talk will be an informal "what are you working on" session. Basically, I feel the dep't is looking for someone who can teach the classes that are on the books for the fall (the spring is up to them) and that we all can cohabit with for the year.
Minnesota has requested interviews for CAMWS (e-mail notification.)
Kenyon has asked for an on-campus interview.
BYU has written (by email) to schedule an interview at CAMWS.
So, I was talking to a colleague who is one of the people running CAMWS, and he/she was far from pleased to learn that so many schools schedule interviews there. Apparently, CAMWS was explicitly intended to be far more relaxing than the APA and not a meat market. But it seems to have turned into a mini version of the APA nonetheless.
Just thought I'd share.
To my knowledge there are only three schools interviewing at CAMWS (and I'm meeting with two of them.)
But I hear you. I've always loved going to CAMWS because it was so stress-free. I guess that'll no longer be the case.
As the market grows more competitive, it only makes sense for schools to interview at CAMWS. Gone is the day when a phone call from your dear old supervisor got you a position. As we've been seeing, one-year VAP positions are getting 20+ applicants. The only way to make a choice in some cases will be through face-to-face meetings.
While I don't like it (except that it seems to be working in my favor), I think that it is a fact of our discipline that we're going to have to accept.
But if CAMWS starts running its own placement service, then look out.
There's no reason why schools have to interview at CAMWS for one-year positions, as proven by the fact that most of them don't -- including both the top research programs and the top liberal arts schools. Moreover, it's unreasonable to expect job candidates who had to spend at least $500 to attend the APA to spend another $500-$800 or so attending CAMWS as well. Not to mention the fact that this year CAMWS was scheduled to practically overlap with Passover, meaning that some candidates potentially could have trouble making it.
None of the schools interviewing at CAMWS insist on meeting with people there. From the wiki you'll note that two of them (Iowa & Minnesota) contacted people to schedule phone OR CAMWS interviews. No poor candidate is being pressured to do anything.
Not this year but last year I had a CAMWS interview notification a week before the conference, and I wasn't given the option of a phone interview. I hadn't been planning to attend and I ended up spending over a month's rent to make the trip.... the interview was really superficial and of course it didn't lead anywhere! Heard some good talks though....
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