So this means that it's possible to be an "external inside candidate"? That is, if you're assured the job but applying from another university. Sounds confusing. We should just call it an unfair search and leave the poor people applying from the inside free of suspicion.
It depends - if the VAPs are young academics just starting to make their way, I agree. If the VAP is a "ringer" who was basically given a tryout for one year and then slipped into a TT position, NO. This is duplicity at its worst. Just hire the person and leave the innocents out of it unless they're so desperate for "practice."
For the record, it turns out that Rutgers is interviewing 19 candidates, representing various sub-fields. Since no department that had settled on an inside candidate would put itself through the hell of conducting nineteen interviews, I would say that those of you who were questioning the validity of their search -- and, implicitly, the integrity of their search committee -- should finally accept that your suspicions were utterly baseless. (And that's my polite way of putting it, after taking the "Backspace" key to what I originally wrote.)
Perhaps this will be a lesson for those of you who enjoy casting about accusations in public when you have no basis for doing so.
"Since no department that had settled on an inside candidate would put itself through the hell of conducting nineteen interviews."
Unless they read the comments here and decided to do this to appear above reproach.
I say this is jest but how can I not when anonymous people are basically having a pissing contest? For the record, I'm sure Corey Brennan is conducting as clean of a search as possible.
By definition, a "pissing contest" is "An argument where each participant is merely attempting to out-do the other one, not for the sake of the truth coming out, but simply to win" (urbandictionary.com). An internet search suggests that "hoo-hah" might have been the better term. I would also accept "crusade," at least as it applies to those of us on the side of the truth coming out...
In case anyone on Penn's search committee is still reading this blog:
Please don't address rejection letters as "Dear Colleague." (The first one out of the many hundreds I've received.) It's much too impersonal and could be taken the wrong way. We at least deserve "Mr.," "Dr.," or "Professor." Word processor programs have been able to handle massive lists of different types of salutations for at least almost two decades now.
If Penn gave a damn what job candidates think, they would send out confirmations that they had received applications -- something they never seem to do, not just this year. It's not like they can't afford the postage, or don't have staff to handle the e-mails.
I think it's bashing because probably 30% of the places I applied didn't send a receipt and if I won't even count all of the places that call me "Professor" even though I haven't got my Ph.D. "Dear Colleague" sounds like a complement to me; one of these days we should starting thinking about ourselves as such, with or without the validation of an interview.
"Dear Colleague" is a very polite address! It shows that, even if you didn't get an interview, or the job, that they still see you as a colleague.
I don't know who is on the Penn SC, but this was a classy move. Give them credit.
As for the lack of acknowledgment, that is an issue every school needs to deal with better. It takes a great deal of work, but it is worth doing, so you are right to complain. But don't single Penn out for that, since it is becoming more and more rare to acknowledge applications.
I don't know about "Dear Colleague" - I didn't apply, but to me it just makes it more of a form letter, though it's polite - but I agree, fewer and fewer places acknowledge applications unless they need an AA/EOE form filled out. It's part of declining civility in general.
As the one who first singled out Penn, I'll say that I did so because that program is a habitual offender in this area. There may well be others that have failed to acknowledge applications even with a simple e-mail both this year and in the recent past, but this is the one I know about.
Penn is an offender. How about McGill? No acknowledgment of receipt of my materials and no answer to 2 emails and a fax. To McGill, Penn and the many others, two words: mail merge. All you need is Outlook and Excel and away you go.
Their basketball team is vastly over-rated, Krzyzewski is crypto-fascist who raised money for Bush, and they rejected my graduate application. The bastards.
Not sure where to put this, but scuttlebutt seemed like the best place. To make a long story short, I was "wait-listed" at a SLAC after Chicago. I interviewed well but I was apparently the odd person out when it came to make the flyback list (as told via email by the SC chair). Apparently, no one on the flyback list panned out and now they're offering me a VAP for next year. Assuming that no other TT jobs pan out, is this a good option? It's not a particularly prestigious college, but I suppose I would potentially be an insider candidate for the future if everything works out? Pros and cons for those with experience would be much appreciated.
Not sure where to put this, but scuttlebutt seemed like the best place. To make a long story short, I was "wait-listed" at a SLAC after Chicago. I interviewed well but I was apparently the odd person out when it came to make the flyback list (as told via email by the SC chair). Apparently, no one on the flyback list panned out and now they're offering me a VAP for next year. Assuming that no other TT jobs pan out, is this a good option? It's not a particularly prestigious college, but I suppose I would potentially be an insider candidate for the future if everything works out? Pros and cons for those with experience would be much appreciated.
Pro - You just landed a fall-market job without having to go through the grind of a campus interview. That is, to put it mildly, awesome! Be very happy. If they ran a fall search for a VAP then they are probably a serious enough place, and have decent resources.
Con - You will be in a difficult position as the "internal candidate" next year. So don't get your hopes up on the TT position. Being a VAP as a placeholder for the TT slot f#!*@$g sucks, to put it mildly.
But it is, presumably, a good job with benefits. Many people won't even get that this year, so again, be thankful. If you are still waiting for TT offers you could let the SLAC know. Did they give you a small window of time in which to make your decision? Or, you could accept, and if you are offered a good TT job then they will likely understand. We've all been there, and won't resent you backing out in March. There will still be plenty of excellent candidates available, so do what is best for you.
It seems like a great stroke of luck from the little info you've given. Now, if it is a 5/5 load for $24k/year, then I might re-think my response. Otherwise, congratulations!!
"If they ran a fall search for a VAP then they are probably a serious enough place, and have decent resources."
It was actually a TT search. For whatever reason, they're not bringing in more people for campus visits and failing the search. The VAP is to fill the gap until they repost the position next year.
It seems like a decent enough position. This is my second time hitting the market, but the first time with degree in hand, so I'm not a savvy veteran.
Presuming I don't get a TT position, how would a position like this stack up against a VAP that doesn't have the peculiar background of this one? I'm not sure whether to run or to be thrilled...
As to why the search failed. Well, smells like Dean Spirit. But that is a random guess.
Regardless, treat it as you would any other VAP. Work hard, but don't kill yourself thinking that you can "earn" the TT slot. The worst thing to do is to set yourself up for failure and disappointment. They might not even interview you, and that will have "nothing" to do with you and the job you are doing at the time.
Ask yourself this. If it were now the end of March, and you had applied for this job on the Spring market, would you be happy to get it?
There is nothing "peculiar" about this, other than the incredible stroke of luck you had in getting it without a campus visit!
I am the author of the post entered 1.2.08, at 12:55 a.m. I would request that the moderator of this board delete that post.
With gratitude and warmest regards,
—well, you know: Anonymous.
Dear Anonymous,
I admit to finding this an exceedingly strange request, especially so given the post (one of the better, more helpful ones the blog has ever seen). But I am sure you have your reasons, which you don't wish to hash out here.
Write me at jobagora@gmail.com
And I'm still not sure how to know whether you are illa or hic, but we'll figure that out in due course.
232 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 232 of 232RE: definition of internal/inside candidate.
So this means that it's possible to be an "external inside candidate"? That is, if you're assured the job but applying from another university. Sounds confusing. We should just call it an unfair search and leave the poor people applying from the inside free of suspicion.
Don't forget about the possibility of a Double Secret Inside Candidate . . .
I agree with this:
"We should just call it an unfair search and leave the poor people applying from the inside free of suspicion."
It depends - if the VAPs are young academics just starting to make their way, I agree. If the VAP is a "ringer" who was basically given a tryout for one year and then slipped into a TT position, NO. This is duplicity at its worst. Just hire the person and leave the innocents out of it unless they're so desperate for "practice."
For the record, it turns out that Rutgers is interviewing 19 candidates, representing various sub-fields. Since no department that had settled on an inside candidate would put itself through the hell of conducting nineteen interviews, I would say that those of you who were questioning the validity of their search -- and, implicitly, the integrity of their search committee -- should finally accept that your suspicions were utterly baseless. (And that's my polite way of putting it, after taking the "Backspace" key to what I originally wrote.)
Perhaps this will be a lesson for those of you who enjoy casting about accusations in public when you have no basis for doing so.
"Since no department that had settled on an inside candidate would put itself through the hell of conducting nineteen interviews."
Unless they read the comments here and decided to do this to appear above reproach.
I say this is jest but how can I not when anonymous people are basically having a pissing contest? For the record, I'm sure Corey Brennan is conducting as clean of a search as possible.
By definition, a "pissing contest" is "An argument where each participant is merely attempting to out-do the other one, not for the sake of the truth coming out, but simply to win" (urbandictionary.com). An internet search suggests that "hoo-hah" might have been the better term. I would also accept "crusade," at least as it applies to those of us on the side of the truth coming out...
I would just like to state for the reccord that
Vladimir Putin is a class act.
I would just like to state for the record that Vladimir Putin is a class act.
I'll second that! I've looked into his eyes and seen his soul!
No, I'm a class act.
has anybody heard anything from york u??
Don't know if anyone is interested, but I have gotten the impression that CSU is not interviewing at APA.
Cinna the Poet, you fucking rawk!
I wish I could buy you a beer, or a vodka tonic, or whatever the hell you want, when we get to Chicago. But I won't know who you are.
But anyway, you fucking ra-
In case anyone on Penn's search committee is still reading this blog:
Please don't address rejection letters as "Dear Colleague." (The first one out of the many hundreds I've received.) It's much too impersonal and could be taken the wrong way. We at least deserve "Mr.," "Dr.," or "Professor." Word processor programs have been able to handle massive lists of different types of salutations for at least almost two decades now.
If Penn gave a damn what job candidates think, they would send out confirmations that they had received applications -- something they never seem to do, not just this year. It's not like they can't afford the postage, or don't have staff to handle the e-mails.
Yikes, one thread is bashing Princeton and this one is doing the same for Penn. Who's next? Brown?
i don't think this is bashing. it's common courtesy to acknowledge applications and to address candidates by their proper title.
I think it's bashing because probably 30% of the places I applied didn't send a receipt and if I won't even count all of the places that call me "Professor" even though I haven't got my Ph.D. "Dear Colleague" sounds like a complement to me; one of these days we should starting thinking about ourselves as such, with or without the validation of an interview.
"Dear Colleague" is a very polite address! It shows that, even if you didn't get an interview, or the job, that they still see you as a colleague.
I don't know who is on the Penn SC, but this was a classy move. Give them credit.
As for the lack of acknowledgment, that is an issue every school needs to deal with better. It takes a great deal of work, but it is worth doing, so you are right to complain. But don't single Penn out for that, since it is becoming more and more rare to acknowledge applications.
I don't know about "Dear Colleague" - I didn't apply, but to me it just makes it more of a form letter, though it's polite - but I agree, fewer and fewer places acknowledge applications unless they need an AA/EOE form filled out. It's part of declining civility in general.
As the one who first singled out Penn, I'll say that I did so because that program is a habitual offender in this area. There may well be others that have failed to acknowledge applications even with a simple e-mail both this year and in the recent past, but this is the one I know about.
Penn is an offender. How about McGill? No acknowledgment of receipt of my materials and no answer to 2 emails and a fax. To McGill, Penn and the many others, two words: mail merge. All you need is Outlook and Excel and away you go.
Hey. I just realized that no one has said anything negative yet about Duke, Ohio State or Chicago. Inobtrusive bastards. Let's get 'em!
Duke!
Their basketball team is vastly over-rated, Krzyzewski is crypto-fascist who raised money for Bush, and they rejected my graduate application. The bastards.
Go Heels!
Not sure where to put this, but scuttlebutt seemed like the best place. To make a long story short, I was "wait-listed" at a SLAC after Chicago. I interviewed well but I was apparently the odd person out when it came to make the flyback list (as told via email by the SC chair). Apparently, no one on the flyback list panned out and now they're offering me a VAP for next year. Assuming that no other TT jobs pan out, is this a good option? It's not a particularly prestigious college, but I suppose I would potentially be an insider candidate for the future if everything works out? Pros and cons for those with experience would be much appreciated.
Not sure where to put this, but scuttlebutt seemed like the best place. To make a long story short, I was "wait-listed" at a SLAC after Chicago. I interviewed well but I was apparently the odd person out when it came to make the flyback list (as told via email by the SC chair). Apparently, no one on the flyback list panned out and now they're offering me a VAP for next year. Assuming that no other TT jobs pan out, is this a good option? It's not a particularly prestigious college, but I suppose I would potentially be an insider candidate for the future if everything works out? Pros and cons for those with experience would be much appreciated.
Pro - You just landed a fall-market job without having to go through the grind of a campus interview. That is, to put it mildly, awesome! Be very happy. If they ran a fall search for a VAP then they are probably a serious enough place, and have decent resources.
Con - You will be in a difficult position as the "internal candidate" next year. So don't get your hopes up on the TT position. Being a VAP as a placeholder for the TT slot f#!*@$g sucks, to put it mildly.
But it is, presumably, a good job with benefits. Many people won't even get that this year, so again, be thankful. If you are still waiting for TT offers you could let the SLAC know. Did they give you a small window of time in which to make your decision? Or, you could accept, and if you are offered a good TT job then they will likely understand. We've all been there, and won't resent you backing out in March. There will still be plenty of excellent candidates available, so do what is best for you.
It seems like a great stroke of luck from the little info you've given. Now, if it is a 5/5 load for $24k/year, then I might re-think my response. Otherwise, congratulations!!
"If they ran a fall search for a VAP then they are probably a serious enough place, and have decent resources."
It was actually a TT search. For whatever reason, they're not bringing in more people for campus visits and failing the search. The VAP is to fill the gap until they repost the position next year.
It seems like a decent enough position. This is my second time hitting the market, but the first time with degree in hand, so I'm not a savvy veteran.
Presuming I don't get a TT position, how would a position like this stack up against a VAP that doesn't have the peculiar background of this one? I'm not sure whether to run or to be thrilled...
Be thrilled. Serious.
As to why the search failed. Well, smells like Dean Spirit. But that is a random guess.
Regardless, treat it as you would any other VAP. Work hard, but don't kill yourself thinking that you can "earn" the TT slot. The worst thing to do is to set yourself up for failure and disappointment. They might not even interview you, and that will have "nothing" to do with you and the job you are doing at the time.
Ask yourself this. If it were now the end of March, and you had applied for this job on the Spring market, would you be happy to get it?
There is nothing "peculiar" about this, other than the incredible stroke of luck you had in getting it without a campus visit!
Einem geschenkten Gaul sieht man nicht ins Maul.
Servius,
I am the author of the post entered 1.2.08, at 12:55 a.m. I would request that the moderator of this board delete that post.
With gratitude and warmest regards,
—well, you know: Anonymous.
Servius,
I am the author of the post entered 1.2.08, at 12:55 a.m. I would request that the moderator of this board delete that post.
With gratitude and warmest regards,
—well, you know: Anonymous.
Dear Anonymous,
I admit to finding this an exceedingly strange request, especially so given the post (one of the better, more helpful ones the blog has ever seen). But I am sure you have your reasons, which you don't wish to hash out here.
Write me at jobagora@gmail.com
And I'm still not sure how to know whether you are illa or hic, but we'll figure that out in due course.
-Servius
Thank you, Servius.
I have written to your email account.
Best, A.
Dear Anonymous,
Comment is now deleted.
Yours,
--Servius
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